The rising cost of shooting

[dromia]

if you want to compete at the top in <snip> TR etc then you will need to join the arms race and the fashionista circles for new and shiny.

Utter nonsense. There is absolutely not an arms race at the top in TR, and very few people who "compete at the top" are using particularly new rifles or other kit in general. Our own GazM has spent some time at the top using Swings, and only just replaced them - mainly because of the risk of problems obtaining parts. There are hardly any aluminium stocks in use at the top, (although I have one myself, it is quite 'unfashionable', was bought second-hand, and carries my [also second-hand] full-bore actions from 1984 and smallbore from 1976, effectively making it an economy via sharing).

Most of the people at the top are there because they have worked long and hard to become excellent shooters, and they tend to stick with what has worked for them during their climb to the top. In fact, they worry more about the possible detriment of changing the formula (by adopting the new and shiny), and that drives people to stick with their tried and tested kit.

..

I wasn't suggesting that money can replace skill, but if you have the skill to be at the top level then you need to pay for the best kit for you to get the most from your skills, TR rifles are not cheap and by the time you put in the ancillary stuff, spotting scope, mat, jacket, rebarreling etc your are still looking at thousands. From my view of the firing lines at the Imperials I've seen what you would expect ranging from old kit to bling. No two ways about it TR isn't cheap and as it is about the competition then you have all your entry fees as well, if it is what you like to do then the cost is worth it but it isn't entry level shooting and if you are not competitive then it isn't really an shooting option. No doubt good actions are handed down and used for their proven ability but there are still the gun smithing costs, it all adds up and if you want to be competitive then you need to keep the kit in condition. Then some people have spare rifle for that eventuality, cost.

[HALODIN]

Sure. They're economic terms, but the principals are pretty straight forward.

Opportunity cost - "You can't have your cake and eat it" is a good example, i.e. you can't spend the same money twice. By choosing to buy an AI AX308, you forgo the opportunity to buy a custom rifle, that may or may not be the right choice.

Diminishing marginal returns - "Too many cooks spoil the broth," i.e. you can't continually make things better by adding more of something. That something could be money and just because that new rifle costs £10K, doesn't mean you'll get £10K's worth of enjoyment out of it.

All I was trying to say is, I agree with your previous assertion that lower priced rifles usually provide the most amount of enjoyment for every pound you spend. More is sometimes less...

Too much "management consultant" speak for it to register with my mind, still puzzled.

"Opportunity cost"? "diminishing marginal returns"? Any chance of a further translation/explanation please I know what the individual words mean but I am not sure I know what you mean when you put them together, I tried the link you gave but I just glazed over when I tried to read it.

[dromia]

lower priced rifles usually provide the most amount of enjoyment for every pound you spend. More is sometimes less...

Thank you, that explains it for me.

[HALODIN]

Thank you, that explains it for me.

[meles meles]

This in part is the reasoning behind a previous post of ours contemplating just what kind of accuracy one could wring out of military surplus 7.62x54R. We were contemplating a rifle build, limited to no more than £1000 (ideally less) and came up with two options: a P14 action or a Moisin Nagant action, fitted with a modern high quality stainless barrel (Lothar Walther seemed to offer good value for the right kind of money) and a Joe West wooden stock. It's a project we are seriously thinking of going ahead with...

[dave_303]

As I always say to the newcomers at the uni shooting club, shooting is as expensive as you want to make it, we have one member just fork out well over a grand for a Remmy 700 in a AI stock, then adding scope, bi-pod etc..

I've never spent over £550 on a rifle (an that was my No.4 Mk.2 which was basically new, there wasn't a single sign of wear on the gun whatsoever). I would spend more if the right gun was about. For me though I shoot on an economy of enjoyment, I collect milsurps and enjoy plinking with them and competing with my .22s. This is why I dropped out of TR .22, the cost of the extra kit was to me just silly, I went to LSR, bout a CZ452, scope and an extra mag, it's lasted me 6 years and will probably last the rest of my lifetime if not more.

I was speaking to another uni club member who does 3 position, and was talking about spending in excess of £120 for a rest, this just seemed mad to me, my shooting 'bag' is infamously 2 NATO ammo tins, and if I need more kit then a rucksack, and until recently my shooting mat was either a sleeping bag roll or a piece of spare carpet.

[mackie]

My approach is to spend money on cheap fun stuff first (s1 shotgun, .22 semi auto - cheap ammo and the guns themselves) and save up for the big stuff while still having a giggle. The full bore club gun I use is certainly good enough to compete with so there's no hurry there and I can spend 2 years saving up the £3k or so to get a new one of my own. For prone small bore I'm on the look out for a cheap BSA Martini lefty which I can stick some modern sights on.
ETA: I'll have more to spend on shooting when I stop running stupid cars with 5+ litre engines.

[Blackstuff]

Just wait and see how expensive shooting will get if 'they' manage to get lead ammo banned!

Shooting is an expensive hobby (for most), there's no getting away from it. I had to 'trim the fat' with my shooting expenditure a few years ago (reduce the number of clubs i was a member of, dropped out of 2 shooting associations and sold 2 guns that i wasn't using much) so that i could save for a deposit for a house (and to pay off a load of debt that i partially accrued buying lots of guns ). If the costs keep rising no doubt i'll have to do it again

Hopefully now that i'd got the kit to make my own shotgun slugs (but none of the raw materials as yet :roll: ) i'll be able to get the cost of my PSG down, as a 25 box of slugs at the moment is £16.50

There is simply no way i could afford to buy again the guns i've got now. Not that i could afford to do it back then but youthful abandon tends to make things happen :lol:

[Gaz]

if you want to compete at the top in <snip> TR etc then you will need to join the arms race and the fashionista circles for new and shiny.

Utter nonsense. There is absolutely not an arms race at the top in TR, and very few people who "compete at the top" are using particularly new rifles or other kit in general. Our own GazM has spent some time at the top using Swings, and only just replaced them - mainly because of the risk of problems obtaining parts. There are hardly any aluminium stocks in use at the top, (although I have one myself, it is quite 'unfashionable', was bought second-hand, and carries my [also second-hand] full-bore actions from 1984 and smallbore from 1976, effectively making it an economy via sharing).

Most of the people at the top are there because they have worked long and hard to become excellent shooters, and they tend to stick with what has worked for them during their climb to the top. In fact, they worry more about the possible detriment of changing the formula (by adopting the new and shiny), and that drives people to stick with their tried and tested kit.

..

I wasn't suggesting that money can replace skill, but if you have the skill to be at the top level then you need to pay for the best kit for you to get the most from your skills, TR rifles are not cheap and by the time you put in the ancillary stuff, spotting scope, mat, jacket, rebarreling etc your are still looking at thousands. From my view of the firing lines at the Imperials I've seen what you would expect ranging from old kit to bling. No two ways about it TR isn't cheap and as it is about the competition then you have all your entry fees as well, if it is what you like to do then the cost is worth it but it isn't entry level shooting and if you are not competitive then it isn't really an shooting option. No doubt good actions are handed down and used for their proven ability but there are still the gun smithing costs, it all adds up and if you want to be competitive then you need to keep the kit in condition. Then some people have spare rifle for that eventuality, cost.

I hate to say this, as a TR shooter, but Dromia's right. TR definitely isn't entry-level shooting. Even if you use an old rifle with a knackered barrel and buy all your kit secondhand, from zero to competing will cost around £1200-£1500 once you factor in all the gear for TR. That's without learning the discipline, which is a few months' work in itself. I could happily spend £1200 on my TR setup in the blink of an eye right now and still "need" more. (OK, a big chunk of that would be a new barrel made and fitted to my precise spec but that's another argument)

There is simply no way i could afford to buy again the guns i've got now. Not that i could afford to do it back then but youthful abandon tends to make things happen

A mate of mine left his girlfriend a while ago. He consoled himself by buying a SMLE!

[meles meles]

Ah, 'ole faithful'