Best ever battle rifle

[meles meles]

Hmmm, so all we need to do is find a few crates of long stored P14s and issue them to the troops...

[snayperskaya]

Depends on the battle !!

600 yards ?

Or the more common 100-300 yards ?

If the latter - it has to be the AK47 !!

Oh indeedy, ooman, but at 300 mards or less the P14 can cut through brick walls...

So can an Ak round!!!, shooting through walls is a national sport in the Lebanon!.

I know I am biased but the AKM (not the early Ak-47) has got to be the best rifle as it is tough, reliable, easy to use and maintain and is widely available.You can teach a person to load,fire and maintain it in 3 hours (the muscle memory will last a lifetime) and it can be used by anyone from 8-80.The AKM and its variants are the real Weapons of Mass Destruction out there on the battlefields of today.No matter where there is conflict you will find a Kalashnikov, whether it is a Somali with beat up milled receiver 47 or a Spetsnaz trooper with a Ak-105 in the Ukraine.
It is also the only firearm to appear on an official national flag, that of Mozambique.NASA are also quoted as saying if they sent an Astronaut to an alien planet and didn't know what to expect they would give him a Kalashnikov.

[dave_303]

EM-2 anyone???

Seriously though, I love my P14, it's a great rifle, but the action despite being cock on close is just not as smooth as that of a Lee Enfield. Admittedly the sights are better than those of the No.4 and SMLE, but that smoothness of the action of the Lees nips it for me. I certainly prefer my P14 over my Mauser K98.

Maybe the MAS36 is worth some consideration........

[meles meles]

We have a MAS 36 but it's a bit of an oddity in terms of ergonomics. Seems to have been designed with a very short length of pull and a werid throw on the bolt.

[dave_303]

The length of pull can be dealt with by using a grenade launching stock boot. Hoping to get one soon and give it a go, on the plus side it would make the already mild recoil even more mild.

I like the bolt through, I have gotten use to it and as such have been able to let off 5 rounds with great speed, I finally have stripper clips so will see what I can achieve with that.

[25Pdr]

snayperskaya Said.....

So can an Ak round!!!, shooting through walls is a national sport in the Lebanon!.

Just so happens our Friend Hickok45 has done just that.. razz

Clicky...

[Barrakan]

I had a wee go with an Ak many moons ago and I was impressed by it.

Thinking back on that, I bet that bloody thing is still going strong where as I'm starting to show signs of wear and tear

[Sim G]

I know I am biased but the AKM (not the early Ak-47) has got to be the best rifle as it is tough, reliable, easy to use and maintain and is widely available.You can teach a person to load,fire and maintain it in 3 hours (the muscle memory will last a lifetime) and it can be used by anyone from 8-80.The AKM and its variants are the real Weapons of Mass Destruction out there on the battlefields of today.No matter where there is conflict you will find a Kalashnikov, whether it is a Somali with beat up milled receiver 47 or a Spetsnaz trooper with a Ak-105 in the Ukraine.

You could say the same about any weapon. The AK's proliferation has absolutely nothing to do with the "all round greatness" of the rifle, but everything to do with the Soviets and their allies, and later Russian politics.

"Reliability" comes from tolerances so sloppy that even mediocre quality ammunition will make it work. But they certainly do suffer from stoppages. The ergonomics are appalling. The folding stock version is one of the most uncomfortable weapons I've ever shot. An intermediate cartridge that's no good after 300yds, but that's not important as the short sight radius does nothing to aid accuracy.

Thankfully our enemies have not been equipped with better weapons or we would have had a lot more casulaties!

The Rk62, R4 and Galil are vastly improved AK designs, but they still fall short... Even the best small arms designers in the Soviet Union, the Czechs, based their rifle on the outward appearance of the AK only. Internally they are utterly different....

On top of which, it's a strong possibility that Kalashinikov didn't even design the weapon that has imortalised him! Kalashnikov did develop an SMG whilst recovering from wounds, but it was never adopted. It did get him moved into the armaments arena of the Soviet Union, and the eventual AK bears no resemblance at at all to his initial design.

But what's better Soviet propaganda? A tractor come tank mechanic, son of a peasant brought up hunting with his father's gun to feed the family, whilst recouperating from sustained war wounds, hears from his comrades the victories they could win with a rifle like the Germans, then goes on and designs the rifle that will save the Soviet Union!

Or, a weapons designer who developed his first semi auto in 1930, then had a rifle adopted in 1936, with a design that showed influences of John Garands ideas, then after the war has a second rifle adopted whilst refining a design again which has Garand influences, hailed as the Saviour of Soviet rifles? Simonov, he designed the rifle that bears another mans name.

There is very strong evidence that the myth surrounding the rifle and the man who made it, is more myth than any would have thought....

[dave_303]

Interesting Sim, I've never heard of the Simonov idea before, oddly enough only just the other day I was reading articles claiming the AK to be a Danish design and the more convincing idea that Hugo Schmeisser had a leading, if not the leading role in the design process.

[meles meles]

Should we mention the Mondragon?