Expired FAC, "it'll be fine, go shoot" say police

[SevenSixTwo]

Good. Good to see people pushing back. We're paying full cost now for the "service" so let's act like paying customers and demand our money's worth at every turn.

[channel12]

The day before your vehicle insurance expires you contact your insurance company and pay the renewal fee by phone. There's no post for several days so you don't get your new insurance certificate before your old insurance runs out.

Question, would you continue to drive your vehicle without having received your new insurance certificate?

[saddler]

The day before your vehicle insurance expires you contact your insurance company and pay the renewal fee by phone. There's no post for several days so you don't get your new insurance certificate before your old insurance runs out.

Question, would you continue to drive your vehicle without having received your new insurance certificate?

Slightly different - as my insurance doesn't physically post a certificate out

You have to do that from the pdf copy that they supply

As to the car insurance - YES - you have a valid policy so would be covered even without a certificate in your possession.

Guns in public without a certificate - not so much.
At the least you'd be risking them being seized until you could provide a valid certificate.

[safetyfirst]

She is still in possession of her expired certificate, her FEO will collect it for shredding when he turns up with her new ticket. Just FYI.

[Ian]

I have my old FAC and SG certificates, they never wanted them back.

The explosives licence is different though, the old one must be surrendered

[Sim G]

Guns in public without a certificate - not so much.
At the least you'd be risking them being seized until you could provide a valid certificate.

Every time your certificate is in for a variation, which is often for you, do you demand a S7 permit then? No, no one does. I've said it many times here when the feet stomping starts about not being in possession of certificates. Carry suitable ID and a quick PNC check shows that you are lawfully entitled to possession.

[bradaz11]

Guns in public without a certificate - not so much.
At the least you'd be risking them being seized until you could provide a valid certificate.

Every time your certificate is in for a variation, which is often for you, do you demand a S7 permit then? No, no one does. I've said it many times here when the feet stomping starts about not being in possession of certificates. Carry suitable ID and a quick PNC check shows that you are lawfully entitled to possession.

i was just about to say this! as i doubt most police officers would believe a bit of paper from a laser printer anyway, until they have checked it on PNC

[Gaz]

Guns in public without a certificate - not so much.
At the least you'd be risking them being seized until you could provide a valid certificate.

Every time your certificate is in for a variation, which is often for you, do you demand a S7 permit then? No, no one does. I've said it many times here when the feet stomping starts about not being in possession of certificates. Carry suitable ID and a quick PNC check shows that you are lawfully entitled to possession.

Yes, but the OP's question was what do you do when the licensing department's badmin means your certificate's expired, the renewal's stuck in the system and PNC shows you're not entitled to possess?

[Maggot]

Section 7 just says....

A person who has obtained from the chief officer of police for the area in which he resides a permit for the purpose in the prescribed form may, without holding a certificate under this Act, have in his possession a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms of the permit.

So no sec 7 ro FAC no posess if you take it literally.

I have been told that they dont like to issue them because they are as much hassle as an FAC and look bad in the figures. I get that, so surely then they need another (simple) way of saying "Look, this bod is ok, they can carry on as they are while we sort the paperwork out....THEY HAVE NOT GIVEN US ANY REASON TO REVOKE THE LICENCE" Inocent until proven guilty etc etc.

It has been pointed out that firearms offences are absolute and to an extent this it true (or should be) but in practice its possible you could make honest mistakes as clearly the licensing authority can (like sending your the wrong slots back etc).

The advice to document everything is spot on. I still have the letter sent with my first FAC telling me that as long as the thing was in for renewal I was ok.....not legally though, so I kept it.

This to me is the whole essence of what is wrong with the system. Various authorities have been allowed/advised in such a way that the laws they are enforcing makes their job and our lives more difficult, it opens people up (on both sides) to potential unwarranted criticism and potential punishment, and the only people who know enough to really argue the toss are lawyers and the odd expert like Iian at the NRA.

There is a part of me (and I guess its what they are banking on) that says that if you have not had the FAC revoked, and it is in for renewal, then your suitability to hold has not changed and they should simply issue an FAC in lieu (could be something suitably un-copyable, laminated and serial numbered if needs be) while your FAC was in process. YOU KNOW when the thing is due so you simply stock up before you hand it in. But this is just sensible and would make everyones life easier.

One problem I wonder about is how much of our voice is actually conveyed to the powers that be? Surely there are some workable ideas out here that would benefit all sides? The constabularies are being hammered and need to slick the system up.

Personally, I wont hand my FAC in until I get told mine is ready for issue because as I explain, I dont shoot within hants and as such, other forces may not be quite so understanding. It was the sam ewith my Sec5 ammo collecting slot, I had to cajole a bit there just to collect inert projectiles...they hurt if you sit on them honest officer.

This is a case in point as I have now sent scans of my FAC and the accompanying letter I sent when asking for the ammo slot to several other shooters to show their authorities. They just cant get their head round it.

A regards PNC etc, dont bank on it, like everything it needs updating and goes down.

[Sim G]

Yes, but the OP's question was what do you do when the licensing department's badmin means your certificate's expired, the renewal's stuck in the system and PNC shows you're not entitled to possess?

Store your guns with an RFD and demand a s7....

As maggot said, the "system" fails. The whole thing needs a revamp. I've heard some say they don't want an overhaul because that will be used as an excuse to get stuff through the back doors.

So everyone knows the system is crap. So what do you do? Come from the angle that the police are always trying to do us wrong, so make it more difficult for them and demand this and that. Of, do we accept that the system is wrong and try to get the best from it. If the police say, "All's in order. Carry on as normal, but you won't get the paperwork for six weeks", should we not just take that at face value?