Unprofessional behaviour of Met FET

[lapua338]

Before you complain too much - work out if you're actually going to buy the 7 or more you're asking for (within 12 months)

So many newbs ask for loads, then realise they'll need to spend thousands to buy everything they want straight away. 5 years later, half the slots are unfilled...

If you kick off then don't fill your FAC up, you'll look rather silly.

I suggest you read the post again and assimilate the information before posting unhelpful statements.

To maintain club ethos and integrity as a condition of membership there is an agreement to acquire appropriate firearms and ammunition to participate in all club activities. That's the "good reason". To retain full membership, members must possess the appropriate firearms and ammunition under the authority of a personal firearm certificate. It's not a "plinking" club and neither is it a "traditional" small bore target shooting club.

Historically, it was a handgun club. Following the introduction of the 1997 Firearms (Amendments) Acts, which effectively banned private possession of "short firearms", club activities have continued using pistol calibre lever action rifles (old school with no optics permitted), .22LR semi-automatic carbines, long barrelled pistols and revolvers. It is also desirable to possess iron-sighted and optic-equipped bolt action .22LR rifles/carbines for Mini Service rifle-type events.

[Sim G]

To maintain club ethos and integrity as a condition of membership there is an agreement to acquire appropriate firearms and ammunition to participate in all club activities. That's the "good reason". To retain full membership, members must possess the appropriate firearms and ammunition under the authority of a personal firearm certificate. It's not a "plinking" club and neither is it a "traditional" small bore target shooting club.

Feck me there's an irony! And you're having a pop at the Old Bill for being officious!

Try shooting for fun instead....

[Cad Monkey]

I personally think the FEO of the Met has got it right, issueing 7 slots for firearms (not mods) rings alarm bells and to me screams of someone who just wants to test the system rather than develop and hone there skills in a few of disciplines.
No doubt this individual has been encouraged, incorrectly I might add, by fellow members of his particular club to go for everything he wants from the get go, I'm sorry but that's bad advice.

[Odd Job]

When I got my first FAC (also with the MET) the FEO recommended I go for 5 slots:

1) .22 for bench
2) .22 for gallery
3) .357 or .44 or whatever underlever
4) muzzle-loader of some sort
5) 9mm rifle <---- this was my preference instead of a fullbore rifle

When the ticket came up for renewal I still had not found a suitable 9mm. The MET said they would leave that slot on my ticket for another year but if I hadn't purchased it by then the slot would go. This would NOT prejudice a subsequent request for variation if I found a 9mm after that.
True to their word, the slot was removed after another year.

When it comes to renewals (or even variations after a having an FAC for a year or two) I have found the MET to be quite reasonable with granting my requests. I have 14 moderators on my FAC for research purposes. I don't think I would have got those on first request, and even now I had to provide evidence of the research.

But in general I have found the MET to be very helpful.

I have a suspicion that they become less helpful if the FAC candidate has a history or the FAC holder has a history. I can't prove it though.
I get background checked by employers regularly because I work in healthcare and in the past I have been involved with a forensic service provider which also required detailed background checks. I think it goes a long way if you have a clean sheet and are courteous in all your dealings with the FEO.

My recommendation to the OP is that his friend picks the most likely to be used 3 guns and gets those on his FAC. After a few months with variation he can get the rest.
If the club is specifying he has to own each rifle for each discipline he wants to shoot, then he needs to cut down on the number of disciplines initially, or better still, find another club because in that case the main friction is emanating from onerous club requirements, rather than MET restrictions.

[Blackstuff]

When I applied for a grant I applied for, and received 5 rifle slots and 4 moderator slots. The FLD of the day simply went strictly by the legislation and as I had access to facilities to use all of the guns requested, they were granted.

Unless your newbie lives near Sellafield or has recently emigrated from Fukushima and has sprouted several extra limbs I don't see how they are any more of a threat to public safety whether they're granted 2 or 20 slots.

However, on the flipside 'good reason' to possess firearms includes a minimum amount of usage and using 7 guns regularly eats up a LOT of your time, so technically they may be 'enforcing' that. But if it can be demonstrated the applicant is already shooting with that many firearms using club guns, I don't think its much of an excuse.

I'm willing to bet that the 'guns on the street' comment was made by someone new to the department and FLD's (FET's) seem to have quite the staff turnover, and it was made as a 'laymans' comment no doubt picked up from the news/tv, rather than from the FLD. It does need to be brought up though.

[breacher]

The question re whether the applicant actually has the funds available to buy the 7 firearms has not been answered.

Also, will he have time to compete in 7 different types of shooting ? I have far fewer and find work and other stuff gets in the way. I am assuming of course that he works rather than being retired ?

There has to be some sort of limit surely ? Whether thats 4,5,6 or whatever. Otherwise, you will get new applicants asking for 10 or 20 firearms.

Personally speaking, I have found that USUALLY if you provide a well written letter detailing your good reason, you get what you ask for.

You say "good reason has been satisfied" - has the applicant used 7 different types of club firearms regularly ? Is he shooting every evening or something ?

[DL.]

If asking for a certain amount of ammunition for buying in bulk (cost saving) isn't sufficient good reason - then how can not having the funds immediately available to buy a certain number of rifles be a reason to decline an application? - they can't have it both ways!

So it's not okay to spend more on ammo to make a longer term cost saving, but it is necessary to go out and buy rifles equal to the number of slots on your licence as soon as its issued?

I'm not sure I follow the logic. Nor see the safety case.

Rifles don't need to be expensive, some are almost being given away.

The FLO's are hoping that by recommending people change their applications to apply for less they are limiting the number of rifles in public ownership. It might be time for someone to establish good reason, stick to their requested number, appealing any following decision if unsuccessful.

Once a precedent has been set, they will probably realise they can't just make up their own arbitrary rules with no basis in law.

[ovenpaa]

Personally I see no issue with an initial grant of 3 or 4 firearms. I certainly could not forecast how my shooting style and requirements would change over the period of my first certificate as things change as we learn. To actively and effectively shoot seven separate disciplines as a probationer is impressive, let alone as an FAC holder and even to this day I only shoot 5 major disciplines and that is many years of experience and I probably have more opportunities than many to pick and chose exactly what I want to shoot.

I started off with 3 rifles on my first grant and soon realised one of my rifles was not seeing anywhere near as much range time as the other two and that was despite a lot of consideration prior to my application. Things change and life is too short to get hot under the collar about another persons first application :)

[bradaz11]

he has been able to borrow club guns to take part in these comps for the last year, why can he not now continue to borrow 3 guns, while buying the 4 he gets permission for on his FAC, for another 6 months? then he can have a full compliment.
just because he now has an FAC doesn't mean he can't use club guns surely?

[TomH]

Personally speaking, I have found that USUALLY if you provide a well written letter detailing your good reason, you get what you ask for.

You say "good reason has been satisfied" - has the applicant used 7 different types of club firearms regularly ? Is he shooting every evening or something ?

Did the applicant write a good justification for all he requested, or just say I need all these guns because the club require me to have them?

Seems an odd club to me. You should gravitate towards the guns and disciplines you enjoy shooting not be told what to shoot.

There's two sides to every story and we've just had one here.