The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

mackie wrote:My FAC application is still in the early stages, otherwise I'd be very interested.
I live in Herts and shoot at Bisley and am a member of Welwyn Phoenix RC FYI. I also now do .22 TR at a small club in Radlett.
Am I right in thinking it would be perfectly possible to buy a good second hand rifle and then get the stock changed for something with more adjustment?

When you buy a s/h fullbore rifle for competition use, you have to assume that the barrel is past its best (unless you know otherwise or borescope it). Fitting a new barrel - £650. If you are going to change the stock as well.......

... I might as well go for a new one?

mackie wrote:... I might as well go for a new one?

I started in TR with an old BSA CFT - when I got a bit more serious I had a Quadlock built by Norman Clark - scores went up from high eighties to low nineties. If you're committed to TR and can afford it - go for a new one but, if you think you might switch to F/TR I'd look at a s/h one.

mackie wrote:... I might as well go for a new one?

If you can find just what you want I wouldn't worry whether it was new or 2nd hand (as long as it is in good nick). Second-hand rifles have taken me to the Commonwealth Games and won me Commonwealth Championship golds. Even though I was only really happy with them once I'd put a new barrel on, the time spent with the original barrel was worthwhile just to get used to the rifle, and having invested that time I was then able to get the best out of the new barrel.

..

I'm starting to feel inferior now! My PB so far is a 46.3 in changable winds at 600 yards. I always seem to have a duff shot or two in each detail though. Something to work on.

mackie wrote:I'm starting to feel inferior now! My PB so far is a 46.3 in changable winds at 600 yards. I always seem to have a duff shot or two in each detail though. Something to work on.

Why do you have a 'duff shot or two in each detail'? Is it lack of wind reading ability or just lack of experience? Don't feel inferior, you are just starting out on a long journey that you will need help on. I still need help so I go and find the right people to give it.
It maybe time that you got someone to look at your technique/position and go back through the basics with you. Not wanting to disrespect your club but at what level do they shoot at? Does your club have any County Level shooters in it? If so get them to look at you when you shoot to identify any obvious problems. Does your club have any National Level or aspirant to national level shooters as these should be helping you. Shooting TR can be a very steep and frustrating learning curve but when you get it right it is so very satisfying.

At present you have access to a decent rifle but what about the rest of your kit? Do you have a good fitting jacket that provides the support that you need? What about your spotting scope? is it up to the job? can you see mirage with it? Shooting TR is about a whole shooting system of rifle,jacket,mat, scope score book etc. Every thing needs to work and you should not be straining to use anything when you are on the 'point'. Everything should be at hand and in the right place. Poorly laid out kit on the firing point is not conducive to good shooting. If you need help with technique/wind reading/plotting etc I can be available to help.

The club has some very good, very experienced shooters, and they pretty routinely win county level competitions. I've had some very good coaching so far but that last 2 shoots have been uncoached as they were run as an internal club competition (against handicap so I did quite well!).
The club kit is decent but I'm now on the hunt for a good left handed specific jacket and all the other stuff ready for next season. No complaints about spotting scopes, they are old but pretty damn good as far as I can tell.
As for my inconsistency, I'm pretty sure anything on the left or right of the bull is just wind reading but occasionally I'll put one way up high (trigger pull most likely) or be banging them in just a bit low which may be due to my eye positioning being inconsistent between details (same elevation setting in the same wind conditions). My eyes aren't perfect either and sometimes I end up looking at a fuzzy grey egg which doesn't help! I'm definitely improving every time though, so there's hope.

mackie wrote: I'm now on the hunt for a good left handed specific jacket and all the other stuff ready for next season. No complaints about spotting scopes, they are old but pretty damn good as far as I can tell.
As for my inconsistency, I'm pretty sure anything on the left or right of the bull is just wind reading but occasionally I'll put one way up high (trigger pull most likely) or be banging them in just a bit low which may be due to my eye positioning being inconsistent between details (same elevation setting in the same wind conditions). My eyes aren't perfect either and sometimes I end up looking at a fuzzy grey egg which doesn't help! I'm definitely improving every time though, so there's hope.

Right.

Lets get the basics sorted.

From what you have said above, in terms of return for your money a trip to an optical specialist is your best bet. Give Gary Alexander (former Captain of Ireland and of GB) at Specsavers Newbury a call, and be prepared to spend £200.

A made to measure jacket is, in my opinion, the next most important step. Forget secondhand - they rarely work, and you will never find one in left-handed. Call Ian Shirra-Gibb (manager GB 300m team) at Tenring Sports Services. Steve E or Rox may suggest others. Budget £400-600.

Next, a glove that fits. NSRA shop, they have dozens in a range of sizes, I will be buying a couple of their gloves for LH shooters as soon as I remember to take my wallet to work. £20.50

If you think the "old" club scopes are "pretty damn good", come down to Bisley when the Palma squad are training and ask Steve (or me, if I'm not too busy at work) to find people to let you have a look through a Zeiss, Leica or top-end Kowa scope. Then get hold of the RSPB magazine and have a look in their private ads for a good secondhand one. Budget £800 and another £200 for a stand.

While you are with the Palma guys, walk down the line and see how the World Champions get their stocks to fit with a saw, spokeshave, bolts and spacers, towelling, gaffer tape and elastic bands. These guys and girls expect to get 75 ex 75 every time on a 20" bull at 900 yds and several of them will be using Quadlocks with Bartlein barrels.

After all that, if you have serious money left, go looking for a rifle. If you haven't, find someone who really knows how to build a TR position and buy him a couple of beers in exchange for an hour of his time on the clubhouse floor. Actually, that's probably the best place to start.

Iain
Captain, GB to South Africa 2012 (the team that gave Steve E his first GB cap)

IainWR wrote: After all that, if you have serious money left, go looking for a rifle.

Call us a heretic if you will, ooman, but we'd buy a rifle first, then a bucketful o' bullets and get in some practice...

Badger, you are a heretic

While there is much to be said for your own gun and loads of practice, most club rifles are at least vaguely adjustable to fit. Specs, jackets and gloves are highly individual fit items, and most clubs wouldn't think to spend the sort of money on a scope that is needed to let you read mirage at 4pm on an overcast day.

If you are really serious, £700 on a SCATT electronic training system will do far more for your shooting than 1000 rounds down the range if you use it diligently - ie every day, to a consistent schedule, thinking about what works and what doesn't and changing one thing at a time to see if it gains anything. Shooting is like every other elite activity; the more you practice, the luckier you get.