The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Hi all

Just taken over as club sec and this is an on going thing to sort out. Not part of range licence but is part of range standing orders at Barton road and other ranges in the area along with stretcher and extra red flag.
We have 2 RCO,s per shoot so 1 is in charge so the other can be first aider and if all RCO's are trained to required standard we will always have one to comply with standing orders.

Ian I will e-mail with my details for when you find out the answer.

As for treating casualties fix your own ones first then any other cap badge that is lying around in order of how useful they will be to you. That RAF mover who left you stranded while trying to get back for R&R may regret his or her actions in this situation.

TW

RCO first aid is simple.

The basic ability to remove a bolt, rifle or boot from someones rear end is a must :lol:

MoD require the First Aider to be a non-participent in the shooting activities less he become a victim as well. The RCO and ROs/safeties cannot act as medical cover in this instance or shoot.

As civilian clubs need a first aider this should be thought out too, if the first aider is the victim because (s)he is on the range (as RCO, RO or other participant) who's going to stick the band-aid on?.

Mattnall wrote:MoD require the First Aider to be a non-participent in the shooting activities less he become a victim as well. The RCO and ROs/safeties cannot act as medical cover in this instance or shoot.

As civilian clubs need a first aider this should be thought out too, if the first aider is the victim because (s)he is on the range (as RCO, RO or other participant) who's going to stick the band-aid on?.

Civilian clubs are far less likely to be doing the type of shooting that could lead to anyone actually getting shot though. Besides, if its a serious injury, rather than a boo-boo, isn't protocol to just ring the emergency services? Anyone can do that.

If the first aider wasn't allowed to shoot at civvie clubs i can't imagine there'd be many takers/shoots happening! MOD/Landmarc (or whoever it is that manages defence estate) are just covering their @rses so they don't have to provide a first aider

Civilian clubs are far less likely to be doing the type of shooting that could lead to anyone actually getting shot though. Besides, if its a serious injury, rather than a boo-boo, isn't protocol to just ring the emergency services? Anyone can do that.

OOOH RISKY and then some. Yep anyone can phone emergency, does your mobile work on a military range, have you checked. Can you DIRECT the EMS to the range clearly, remember the call may be taken a long way away from where you are. Of course some on here who know more about these things will tell you that a person can bleed out PDQ from a gunshot wound - although if you suppose that any such wound will not be fatal you're OK - aren't you.

Far less likely, oh that's asking for it, accidents can and do happen as we all know, albeit they always happen to someone else.

And then of course there will be the inevitable lawsuit against the club and person(s) responsible, that will sail through if the victim dies because no one knew how to treat the wound in that golden hour or so.

A proper first aid course specific to what is being discussed need not be expensive and there's no reason why an entire club could not take part in a training session. That way there always someone on hand should an accident happen.

Part of our Training Module for such things

Basic Treatment of Bullet Wounds

1) Make sure you are safe.
If the victim was shot by accident make sure everyone's firearm
is pointed away from any other person(s), cleared and made safe.
If the victim was shot deliberately, try to make sure that the shooter is no longer on the scene and that both you and the victim are safe from further injury. Wear personal protective equipment if available

2) Call for help! Call medics, medevac or whatever emergency
services are available. Do NOT delay if at all possible.

3) Do not move the victim unless you must do so to keep him or her safe or to access care

4) Act quickly. Victims who reach medical facilities during the "Golden Hour" have a much better likelihood of surviving. Try to keep your movements swift without making them frenzied.

5) Check the A, B, C, D, E's. Assess these five critical factors
• Airways
• Breathing
• Circulation
• Disability/Deformity
• Exposure

6) Control bleeding. Applying direct pressure is the best way to control most wounds.
Use a pad over the wound and apply pressure directly to the wound. If you have nothing available, even your hand or fingers can be used to control bleeding. Add new bandages over the old; do not remove bandages when they become soaked. Use pressure points in the arm (between the elbow and armpit), groin (along the bikini line), or behind the knee to control bleeding in the arm, thigh, or lower leg, respectively.

7) Be prepared to treat the victim for shock. Gunshot wounds frequently lead to shock. However, do not elevate the legs if the gunshot wound is to the torso, as this will increase bleeding and make it more difficult for the victim to breathe.

8) Try to reassure the victim, keep them talking and awake. Do NOT tell them “it looks bad”. Remember, hearing senses are the last to go.

None of the 1 or 3 day first aid courses i've been on give any instruction on the treatment of gunshot wounds (or even knife wounds IIRC), however someone who's done those courses can be a range first aider. tesnews

I'm lucky in that the first aider on the only range that i shoot on that requires one, is a TA marine and has been on extensive battle field first aid courses. In my range first aid kit i've got Celox powder pouches and their blood stopping bandage in, plus a few Israeli bandages for good measure. I've been contemplating putting a CAT tourniquet in too but i've not had any training using that so i'm not sure.

My point was that if the person who is the first aider wasn't allowed to shoot i think a few, if not a lot of clubs using MOD ranges would struggle to get someone to do it, particularly when the likelihood of a life threatening injury is so remote and even if one does occur, they've probably not had training to deal with it. I don't think there's anyone with a TV that doesn't know the very basic treatment for penetration wounds.

i'll hazard that fractures and heart attacks are a more likely hazard than gunshot wounds on most civvi ranges , I think your all focusing on the wrong thing?

Blackstuff, would it be possible to "rent" the appropriately qualified person for a day or would they need to be a club member?

Blackstuff, a wee addendum if I may.

Rather than Celox, why not sponges, which are better, or the best is the new gun shot injector, it's like a syringe full of expanding foam. But the old style powder is what to use if in an emergency, and none of us are stupid enough to put it in a wound whilst under rotor blades :lol: :lol:

Tourniquets - we also teach common sense in the fact that a shoe or boot lace is also a tourniquet, you don't need a CAT.

A 7.62 direct strike regardless of range or area of body struck will take two sponges inside the wound , this allows you to clean and assess the wound , then one or two over the top, plus a bandage. If the wound is straight through triple it as a good rule of thumb.

Try not to rely on CAT as that cuts blood off to the entire limb and promotes amputation as no blood will pass , killing the limb.

I brought a good video on treating gunshot wounds back from the States a couple of years ago, must watch it again...

tackb wrote:i'll hazard that fractures and heart attacks are a more likely hazard than gunshot wounds on most civvi ranges , I think your all focusing on the wrong thing?

Agreed. Twisted ankles, grazed knees and the wife finding out how much you spent on the latest must-have are the most likely problems to arise on a range in my humble opinion.