From a Czech warehouse to a street near you - Article

[froggy]

Prague is one of the safest capital of Europe with a much lower ratio of Police officers/capita .
Paris is one of the worst capital with a much higher ratio of Police officers/capita.
Draw your own conclusion

[Fedaykin]

The issues certainly do run deep but we can't deny the impact Austerity has had on our services.

Also I am weary of the point you make froggy that numbers of Police per head of population have increased considering the very long time-frame you talk about. In the short term Police numbers are down and those Police that are left have a far wider set of responsibilities then a couple of generations ago.

The deep rooting of these criminal gangs in cities like Manchester are a great concern, that it is so difficult for them to get any kind of gun is good news. It also begs the question why the powers that be think that the law should be tightened further when the current legislation appears to be working.

[Christel]

It was Cameron who introduced the austerity measures we are currently living with.

[Sim G]

There wasn’t a lot of choice. We’d have ended up with the same sort of economy as Greece and Italy. Fedaykin is also bang on when he points out that the responsibilities now taken by the police are immense. Stuff that 20 years ago we wouldn’t have gone near...

But back to the original post. The concept that British Criminals are having to convert starting pistols should actually be regarded a a good thing. It means they’re not getting the “proper stuff” ergo, increases in private ownership of firearms, the continued use of private firearms or even the easing of restrictions in the types of firearms that can be privately owned, have no correlation at all the criminal use!!!

[shugie]

There wasn’t a lot of choice. We’d have ended up with the same sort of economy as Greece and Italy. !

If it wasn't for the fact that corporation and the higher levels bands of income tax have decreased, I'd be inclined to agree with you. The choice wasn't between becoming like Greece, we have a lot more wealth than they do, and our tax system works, more or less. It was a political choice to lower taxes by reducing the money going to public services. And the same thing happened in the last budget, income tax changes for higher earners made them better off, lower down the pay scale, changes in National Insurance negated the slight improvement for basic rate tax payers. But there was no more money for policing.

There are a lot of people who need putting in prison, and probably many of them need to stay there, the US had the three strikes plan, if we had the prison spaces we could have it too. If prison doesn't act as a deterrent, then people can stay in there to keep them out of the way if they re-offend.

[froggy]

The deep rooting of these criminal gangs in cities like Manchester are a great concern.

I dont know about Manchester but I do about the Heygate Estate which is a perfect reflection of what happened to London Borough of Southwark and by large to many estates across London & Europe, from Seine-St-Denis close to Paris, to Kottbusser Tor in Berlin or to Malmo in Sweden.

The Heygate was well liked by its indigenous poor working class residents until S. Hughes & its merry liberal band decided, with scant regard for the locals, to import there as many "Future New Voters" as he could all with Blair's help . As their numbers grew, unsocial behaviour spread, rival gangs drawn on ethnic lines appeared, traffic & delinquency mushroomed, discipline & achievement in schools declined, violence flared pushing decent folks out.

The borough is now a "diverse" utter sh*t hole, the estate had to be knocked down and short of placing a policeman at every single street corner, it will remain despite the billions that now have now to be poured into to clean-up Simon Hughes, ex-President of the Lib-Dem, ideologically driven terrible mess while he now campaigns for more of the same nation wide.

It was a political choice to lower taxes by reducing the money going to public services.

But all they talk about here is the size & the cost of the plaster in order to best avoid talking about the source of the disease that we created on the 1st place . We're doomed

[Sim G]

There wasn’t a lot of choice. We’d have ended up with the same sort of economy as Greece and Italy. !

If it wasn't for the fact that corporation and the higher levels bands of income tax have decreased, I'd be inclined to agree with you. The choice wasn't between becoming like Greece, we have a lot more wealth than they do, and our tax system works, more or less. It was a political choice to lower taxes by reducing the money going to public services. And the same thing happened in the last budget, income tax changes for higher earners made them better off, lower down the pay scale, changes in National Insurance negated the slight improvement for basic rate tax payers. But there was no more money for policing..

Corporation tax did go down, to its lowest level for a long time, but the money collected in corporation tax has actually gone up to record levels! That’s no doubt because low taxation for corporations makes it a far more attractive place to trade and set up, so more are doing it.

No, there was no more money for policing. In real terms funding is 18% lower than it was in 2010 and my salary is worth 22% less, if memory serves.

We’ve heard stories of police officers in London now claiming for free school meals for their children....

What I will say about violence in London in particular, as that’s what grabs headlines. London, during the day with commuters and tourists has a population of around 11 million. About the same as Belgium. Belgium has about 1200 murders a year. London, with around 120 won’t be doing too bad! Got to be careful not to sensationalise it.

And as for police numbers. England and Wales has about 120000 coppers with about 6000 of those armed. France, after the terrorist attacks were able to deploy 240000 police officers. Nigh on all armed. I believe they are now all armed and are encouraged to take their service weapons home and carry off duty. Could you get imagine such an idea was even considered here....?

[bradaz11]

build more prisons - local economy boost for builders, more jobs. set up multiple prisons rather than huge ones. and have staff in working from a central pool for these prisons, with rotating jobs, to make it harder for staff to be comprimised. maybe involving a third party to be in charge of CCTV so staff alone can't just ignore certain things / smuggling.

then as you say, introduce a strike system and lock em up forever.

[Sim G]

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. And, it doesn’t work....

[DaveB]

Three strikes works when it is properly applied. Unfortunately, although we have a three-strikes law here in New Zealand, soft-hearted (soft-headed) judges will bend over backwards to find ways of avoiding carrying out the clearly expressed will of the people - i.e. to lock these scum up and throw away the key. I believe we have in the low single digits, the number of people doing significant time for their third strike. It's not that people aren't committing three serious crimes and being caught, it's that the damned judges are refusing to sentence them in accordance with the guideline. What else would you expect from a namby-pamby system where you are required to speak of 'rehabilitation", and the word 'punishment' is verboten?

You just have to look at it in the proper light. Three strikes may not necessarily be a deterrent, but once the third strike has been recorded, the miscreant is at least off the streets and unable to harm the public for some considerable time. The same can be said for capital punishment. The nay-sayers claim it is not a deterrent. Be that as it may, it certainly cures recidivism.

As much as I hate to use the US as any sort of example, judges there actually seem to get it. I recall one delicious sentence handed down a few years ago to a serial rapist for seven consecutive terms of 20 years. Now THAT'S a proper sentence.