The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Christel shoots a .22 Savage Hi-Power (5.6×52mm Rimmed) The bullet diameter should be .227"-.228" dependant on which article you read and projectiles are difficult to source. Shooting with a .224" projectile produces exactly the same results, keyholes at 25 yards.

Ovenpaa wrote:Christel shoots a .22 Savage Hi-Power (5.6×52mm Rimmed) The bullet diameter should be .227"-.228" dependant on which article you read and projectiles are difficult to source. Shooting with a .224" projectile produces exactly the same results, keyholes at 25 yards.

I'd love to see some good slow-mo to see exactly what happens. I've tried shooting wadcutter air pellets when loaded backwards in various 10m target rifles/pistols. They fly backwards all the way and still group fairly well c. 1/2" at 10m. I tried this as it's not unknown for me to load one backwards and there are times when you're not quite sure if you did or not.

hitchphil wrote:That's more like a map of the disposition of ships at Midway - the 4 scrubbed out are obs the carriers !

Hello
That`s so quick, I like it had a laugh, which is good during these times.

when I first started shooting, I heard the term keyholing, and thought it was supposed to be a good thing. not sure if someone at the club introduced it or I just misunderstood. I thought it was the term for when two bullet holes touched, forming a sort of chubb type key keyhole in the paper.
it was only when I was at another range and i was having some 9mm bullets arriving on paper sideways that I was told that was what keyholing was.

I have a Howa in .223 with a 1 in 12 twist and while very nice with 55gn bullets, it won't group well with anything heavier. I'm guessing a 1 in 14 would probably only work up to 40gn or so?

@Laurie that's an interesting point on the way they all line up at 1900. I'd always assumed they would have tumbled in flight, but destabilizing when they contact the target does make some sense.

I once had a 1943 DOU Mauser K98 that ended up in Israel and converted to 7.62 NATO that turned out to be shot out, it would keyhole like that at 100m.

daman wrote:I have a Howa in .223 with a 1 in 12 twist and while very nice with 55gn bullets, it won't group well with anything heavier. I'm guessing a 1 in 14 would probably only work up to 40gn or so? .....

Yes, my Shooting buddy turned up at the range with a new (to him) .223 Rem 700, along with a box of 75gn Hornady ammo.. that the gun shop said "works well in rifles like that"
At 25yds they were going sideways therough the target...

At my suggestion he bought some 55gn ammo from the club armourer, and they worked fine..

daman wrote:I have a Howa in .223 with a 1 in 12 twist and while very nice with 55gn bullets, it won't group well with anything heavier. I'm guessing a 1 in 14 would probably only work up to 40gn or so? .

IIRC the original M16's had a 1in14 twist which was fine for 55gn bullets in everything except arctic conditions which caused tumbling - the switch to 1in12 solved that problem...my 222 (1in14) could handle 55gn bullets without issue.

However, it's not just the twist rate but bullet shape as well - FB bullets can be shot from slower twist rates than the equivalent BT bullets - https://bergerbullets.com/flat-based-bu ... ist-rates/

Twist rates and bullet stability relate to a bullets length not its weight, unfortunately it has become common practice to use a bullets weight as a proxy for its length which is very unhelpful in discussing the subject and only complicates the issue and confuses those shallow of knowledge on the subject.

dromia wrote:Twist rates and bullet stability relate to a bullets length not its weight, unfortunately it has become common practice to use a bullets weight as a proxy for its length which is very unhelpful in discussing the subject and only complicates the issue and confuses the shallow of knowledge on the subject.

If only you'd have called it head weight we would know what you're on about. :)