The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Egg on Leggs1 wrote:How can you train lay members of the public in such a complex area of mental health.

I have heard some GPs have stated they are not qualified enough to give these sorts of recommendations or reports when confronted with the FAC owner's renewal form.
I'm sure I'll not be able to figure it out, but I'll take the course it it's available.
It will be an interesting situation if a 'trained' range officer refuses access to one member of a party to the range.

The bottom line to all this is that it will be another nail in the coffin marked "Guns".

Les wrote:The bottom line to all this is that it will be another nail in the coffin marked "Guns".

Totally agree!

Egg on Leggs1 wrote:How can you train lay members of the public in such a complex area of mental health.

Simply giving them a list of "things to look out for" is a pointless box ticking exercise.

There is also the issue of liability falling on the (un) trained (non) expert club member for not spotting something and being held to account post incident.

As a workplace first aider, the company I work for pushed for us to take on the title of 'mental health first aider' too. I refused. At no point is some random person who is given an hour overview capable of such a role.

RDC wrote:

Egg on Leggs1 wrote:How can you train lay members of the public in such a complex area of mental health.

Simply giving them a list of "things to look out for" is a pointless box ticking exercise.

There is also the issue of liability falling on the (un) trained (non) expert club member for not spotting something and being held to account post incident.

As a workplace first aider, the company I work for pushed for us to take on the title of 'mental health first aider' too. I refused. At no point is some random person who is given an hour overview capable of such a role.

Quite.
The firm I'm currently contracting for, has done the same thing, its laughable really, except the idiots that dream up this tick boxing nonsense are quite serious about it...
Back in the late 90's for about 9 months, I went out with a fully qualified psychiatrist that worked for the prison service at the time, and she was as unhinged as her 'clients'

basically it all happened so quickly, there was nothing anyone could do.
If you don't think the staff at the range aren't assessing you as you are onsite, think again, but there were no concerns otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed in.
the shooters are 1-1 supervised and the staff will load if the person is unsure. you can't chain the rifles down to a bench, for one you would be constantly chaining and unchaining when customers do the experiences and then a member follows wanting to use the range.
personally I think the staff member was at more risk trying to stop the guy and wrestle a gun from him, than just stare in shock as the guy did what he did.

I'm more surprised a .22 sub did the job tbh.

bradaz11 wrote:I'm more surprised a .22 sub did the job tbh.

A .22 sub will rattle around inside the brainbox, stirring up the contents. Apparently it's the round of choice for a lot of assassinations. It's easily moderated, and it works. The Israeli's - and probably many more - used to (still do??) favour the silenced Ruger .22's for certain jobs.

If someone wants to end it, they will, putting a gun to your head is a not a cry for help. Tunnel run a good range, I'd imagine they couldnt have done any more.

Since we opened we have never allowed same day shooting, everything (even members) must be booked no later than 5pm the day before, the reason being that we wanted a separation between life and coming on range.

Thorney wrote:If someone wants to end it, they will, putting a gun to your head is a not a cry for help.

Many years ago I lived in north Colchester. A mile or two north there was the very busy A12 Colchester bypass dual carriageway in a deep cutting flanked north and south by a pair of NHS mental hospitals with a footbridge over the main road between them. The inevitable followed, so the bridge ended up being suicide proofed like a fenced in tunnel.

At the same time, I was a daily rail commuter to London. One of the most regular causes of serious delay, especially in November/December, was suicide with people walking out of cover onto the track just ahead of an approaching train. Very messy! Close off one method and another arises. Of course, we could stop people walking on footpaths near roads, rivers, and railways or have suicide marshals checking their states of mind!

Where I now live (York), the authorities and some civic bodies have become obsessed with drownings in the River Ouse that flows through the city centre. Most of these are summer 'accidents' from idiots who having imbibed large quantities of alcoholic drink think they can fly off the Ouse bridges, run their parapets safely, or demonstrate Olympic games class high-diving skills. However, some are sad desperate people whose inquests subsequently give suicide verdicts. They avoid the city centre bridges and quietly enter the water from secluded unlit spots where nobody sees them. Every time we have this, the call goes out for the river to be virtually walled-in and isolated from the human population the length and breadth of the city, likewise for the bridges to be idiot proofed like the Colchester footbridge.

Just the same problem at Beachy Head in my neck of the woods. - Constant calls for the edge of the cliff to be fenced off. Wouldn't make a jot of difference, just something seen to be done.