The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

spud wrote:cant edit earlier post but sinclair arbors i can do them for £105 i

...is the spoon extra?

Forster dies used for Christel's 22C are anything from zero runout to .0005"

I must admit I'm slowly going over to all Forster dies, cracking dies and really nice people to deal with, I sent a f/l die to them to have the neck honed, it was back in less than 2
Weeks and they charged me less than £20.00 Inc p&p

One thing I do is sit my neck sizing dies on a nitrile rubber O ring, I then tighten down onto the washer which allows the die to 'float' very slightly. To ensure I always return the die to the same place in the press I have a witness mark on the locking nut which I align with a similar mark on the top of the press. It does seem to make a slight difference.

It is not a new idea, Lee have been doing it for years...

You over thought that one with the 'o' rings, Lee's idea was to make a lock nut on the cheap ie no grub screw or split nut with cap screw. Has little to do with alignment 'float'

Whether or not is was designed for the purpose the Lee rings work well at centring, I use two one on top of the other to secure the die and just hand tighten with a case in the die.

I don't use many Lee dies but I do use their lock rings.

Well, I guess, if you swallow the 'floating' argument! tongueout
One hopes that threads and guides are cut perpendicular and faces squared, this can be easily checked.
In my work (engineering) it's the last thing I would use to get an alignment..... no, in fact cannot ever remember using 'O' rings for that purpose at all.
But eh, each to their own - you have confidence in your technique, have at it!

If press and die threads were truly cut as precision threads then I would agree however I am yet to find a die that does not rattle around slightly in the thread machined into the crown of the press. Personally I would prefer something closer to 24TPI and I am tempted to go for a finer thread on our new .308 BF combination presses to work with our dies and then just include an adapter for the masses.

ovenpaa wrote:If press and die threads were truly cut as precision threads then I would agree.

Absolutely, that is the reason for the "floating". Be good if the tolerances were that precise that it wasn't necessary, however us non engineering mortals have to the best we can with the off the shelf products.

dromia wrote:Whether or not is was designed for the purpose the Lee rings work well at centring, I use two one on top of the other to secure the die and just hand tighten with a case in the die.

I don't use many Lee dies but I do use their lock rings.

Any chance of a pic to show the arrangement?

Well I decided to take the plunge and order a Sinclair press from Spud but some investigation on the US reloading sites discovered that the gears are prone to failure. Sinclair will replace them under guarantee but it's a small comfort if returning from the UK.

Then I thought I'd make one but just don't have the time. So I was stumped until one of my technicians suggested I email my many suppliers a pic and ask them to supply something similar. 5 mins later and one replied confirming that he could and at only 40 quid!

I'll post a pic as soon as it arrives and then nag Spud for the relevant dies.

Thanks all for the prompt replies, offers and info.

Marc

ovenpaa wrote:If press and die threads were truly cut as precision threads then I would agree however I am yet to find a die that does not rattle around slightly in the thread machined into the crown of the press. Personally I would prefer something closer to 24TPI and I am tempted to go for a finer thread on our new .308 BF combination presses to work with our dies and then just include an adapter for the masses.

There would seem to be a lack of understanding about some things. Who was talking about precision threads?
You also confuse clearance (thread fit) with perpendicularity and would appear to assume that production engineering cannot hold a tolerance?
Clearance (fit) in the thread is all the 'floating' that one generally needs (it's there for a reason). And if you set your dies correctly you have little need of 'O' rings.
Except as Lee designed his lock ring...no buggering around with added screws! - Yes I use them too on certain dies!
Attributing an alignment 'accuracy' to a 'O' ring is not how it works!
If the thread is cut out of square or the ram is out of alignment how do you think that an 'O' ring will help?
If you really think about it it will not!

As an aside;
From the Lee precision web site -
"Lee Billet Aluminum Lock Rings are easy to adjust, just finger tighten, holds the adjustment rock solid. Package of 3"
Now forgive me for pointing out that one of the most garrulous reloading tooling manufacturers does not actually make a claim about enhanced 'die holding accuracy'
That really should open the eyes!!!!

And Midway USA -
"Product Information
Shop more Lee products Finger tighten, set and forget, they never move. Just be sure to always loosen your dies by turning the ring, not the die. The rubber insert acts a friction washer to keep the lock ring in position. Package of 3."
Again, Potterfield's group, who would not be against 'sexing up' a product - no mention of accuracy gain potential!

But, hey, I'm not trying to convince anyone how to do it or sell you anything, I have no 'snake oil' in my bag!
Just pointing out something so that all can learn.

I do see that many target shooters need this mental crutch and over-think many things in reloading.
Most shooters, not actually being engineers, fall for the spurious 'BR type' arguments.
I guess it really is just a 'Y' chromosome thing in the end!



Yeah, it's true - I don't subscribe to the usual group think! :lol: