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safetyfirst wrote:I think the lever release and MARS sections will be pushed through as they were a deliberate attempt to circumvent the spirit of the law with regard to semi automatic centre fire rifles.

As pointless as such a law may be in preserving public safety, engineering designed to get round legislation is bound to rub the HO up the wrong way.

But the HO must have tested and subsequently approved both MARS and Lever Release Rifles, if they considered them to circumvent the spirit of the law they wouldn't have approved them as Sec1 at the time of testing and subsequently wouldn't have allowed their sale as Sec1 firearms surely?.

snayperskaya wrote:

safetyfirst wrote:I think the lever release and MARS sections will be pushed through as they were a deliberate attempt to circumvent the spirit of the law with regard to semi automatic centre fire rifles.

As pointless as such a law may be in preserving public safety, engineering designed to get round legislation is bound to rub the HO up the wrong way.

But the HO must have tested and subsequently approved both MARS and Lever Release Rifles, if they considered them to circumvent the spirit of the law they wouldn't have approved them as Sec1 at the time of testing and subsequently wouldn't have allowed their sale as Sec1 firearms surely?.

I read that the Home Office were consulted when the CCA VZ58 was conceived.

But, you then look at the ACPO FELWG minutes from the meeting on 05 February 2015:

8. NABIS Update

c. Recent attacks in France
Martin Parker provided an update on questions that had come out of the recent incidents in France.

Action: Martin Parker to review classification with regards to the MARS rifle


So, circa 2013/4, the Home office declared the VZ58 Section 1 legal.

In 2015, ACPO tasked NABIS (NABIS being owned by the police) to go away and challenge the classification of the MARS rifles.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

And so, here we are today..............

snayperskaya wrote:

safetyfirst wrote:I think the lever release and MARS sections will be pushed through as they were a deliberate attempt to circumvent the spirit of the law with regard to semi automatic centre fire rifles.

As pointless as such a law may be in preserving public safety, engineering designed to get round legislation is bound to rub the HO up the wrong way.

But the HO must have tested and subsequently approved both MARS and Lever Release Rifles, if they considered them to circumvent the spirit of the law they wouldn't have approved them as Sec1 at the time of testing and subsequently wouldn't have allowed their sale as Sec1 firearms surely?.

That’s where the letter of the law and the spirit of the law differ. They complied with the letter. But not the spirit, hence section one and a note to self to add to any new legislation.....

I'd expect LBP's to come under scrutiny soon as well.

Rockhopper wrote:I'd expect LBP's to come under scrutiny soon as well.

Yeah, that was my next thought too

Here's the complete list of MPs who spoke out against the firearms section of the Bill. As I said before, some if not all of them do not understand what the MARS/LR part is referring to, so if you own one and want to keep you might want to educate them.

Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con)
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)
Mr Alister Jack (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)
Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)
Dr David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op)
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
Julia Lopez(Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con)
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)

What’s the point of our shooting organisations if they can’t even brief on side politicians on the facts correctly.

JSC wrote:Here's the complete list of MPs who spoke out against the firearms section of the Bill. As I said before, some if not all of them do not understand what the MARS/LR part is referring to, so if you own one and want to keep you might want to educate them.

Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con)
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)
Mr Alister Jack (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)
Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)
Dr David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op)
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
Julia Lopez(Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con)
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)

You mention Vicky Ford twice, was she doubly vocal?

Airbrush wrote:What’s the point of our shooting organisations if they can’t even brief on side politicians on the facts correctly.

It seems they did a reasonable job in getting the points across about .50 cal/13,600J and it must be difficult when they are trying to explain technicalities to MPs who really don't have a clue about most things, but considering Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown is Chairman of the all-party group on shooting and conservation, you would have expected him of all people to understand the difference between a lever release and semi-auto rifle.

But it is what it is and we just cannot rely on our shooting organisations to save all our guns.

I see on other social media pages quite a few shooters just moaning and bitching about it and taking the view that it's inevitable the Bill will go through. Well it's not inevitable but it's going to take some effort to make sure all the valid points are properly brought up and discussed at Committee.

The FCSA have been the most proactive body and it could very well work for them judging by the tone of yesterday's reading. If the BASC, CA and BSSC didn't take the time to brief the likes of Sir Geoffrey regarding MARS/LR rifles then some blame will lie with them if that part of the Bill goes through. It could be they were briefed well, but the MPs failed to understand the technicalities.

Either way, there is still time to present the correct evidence before the Committee stage and that's what we should all be trying to do.

BamBam wrote:
You mention Vicky Ford twice, was she doubly vocal?

That must have been an echo in the Chamber!