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Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:17 am
by BamBam
Pinguino wrote:Interesting facts from today's committee stage oral submissions regarding Offesnive Weapons Bill
Up to 31st March 2018
Total number of Firearms Certificates = 157,581
Total number of Firearms held = 577,547
Total number of Shotgun Certificates = 567,047
Total number of shotguns = 1,359,368
In 2018 so far, 39 rifles and 165 shotguns have been stolen from certificate holders
Total number of firearms with muzzle energy above 13,600 joules = 129
This tells me we need more people with certificates.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:13 am
by dromia
Not according to the "Lost/Stolen Weapons certificates" notifications sent to RFDs.
Jan - June 2018 shows 1 firearm stolen and 3 shotguns reported missing/stolen.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:18 am
by Lancs Lad
That's a very significant difference in figures of firearms and shotguns stolen for this year to date. Why is that?
LL
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:20 am
by dromia
You would need to ask firearms certification for any chance of an answer to that question.
The best we can do is speculate.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:00 am
by JSC
Laurie wrote:JSC wrote:I thought the NRA were organising for some independent testing to be done to show what .50 was capable of with S1 ammunition.
What happened with that?
Do you really want someone to show a bunch of MPs just what the 50BMG can do at what ranges? Can you inagine what a SUN journo' would make of such a demo hearing about it? Bearing in mind that the 50 was one of the founder cartridges used in the KO2M (King of Two Miles) annual comp and has been overtaken by much more ballistically adept cartridges in a mere three years, eg the 375 Cheytac and this year's winner the 418 Barrett, any such demonstration would scare the pants off a typical MP. .......... and when they hear that there are 375, forty-cal and 416s that outshoot the big 50 at this and yet longer ranges, then the demand for them to go too will follow in short order.
I've just finished reading / rereading a whole series of histories of the Korean War, and one of the features mentioned in several was the awesome destructive power of the halftrack mounted quad 50BMG M2s, an anti-aircraft weapon used in the ground role. Its use alone probably swung the balance against the North Koreans in the desperate fighting along the Nactong River frontline of the Pusan Perimeter in August / September 1950 that came within an ace of the US/UN forces being driven into the sea.
In the very early days of F-Class when the standard NRA 2-MOA target was still in use and standards were way lower than today's I was chatting to a major player in the specialised shooting equipment supply business behind the firing point of a Diggle 1,000 yards F comp. He said then, and I agreed then and do so even more now, that he hoped to hell that nobody was stupid enough to invite HO officials and MPs to such a competition. If they saw how shot after shot was going into a 20-inch circle (read 10 inches now), not only would such rifles be banned within months but so would the riflescopes that allow those hits to be made and probably handloading too!
I'm not suggesting anyone demonstrates anything to MPs. I'm suggesting someone should have solid facts at their disposal so they can counter any dubious claims made by the Police or HO. One of the main arguments put forward by the .50 cal owners was that AP ammo was required to turn their rifles into material destruction devices. Is that correct or not?
If you're worried about someone finding out we can shoot a man-sized target at 1000yds with a target rifle, you better stop posting the fact on these forums.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:19 pm
by JSC
This is what was said in the committee meeting yesterday by Mark Groothuis, the national firearms licensing liaison officer for counter-terrorism policing.
"Because of the nature of the sport—it is just long-range target shooting; there is no quarry shooting involved in this—do we want to take that chance?"
That's what we're up against, not just for this Bill.
What was said about .50 in particular was that, with ball ammunition, they are capable of immobilising a light or medium-size vehicle or truck at 1,800 metres.
I don't know if that's correct or not, but if it's incorrect someone needs to tell the committee in a future meeting.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:15 am
by Cutch
Has there been a letter made up that i can send to my local MP to state my thoughts on banning these rifles?
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:18 am
by Airbrush
BASC were useless, just as I expected.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:22 am
by Chapuis
Airbrush wrote:BASC were useless, just as I expected.
I'm just wondering why you said that Airbrush, surely it's a bit outside of their normal remit isn't it.
I don't think there are many .50 calibre rifles being used for stalking and I wouldn't think that the MARS would be the best of foxing rifles either.
Re: New laws coming?
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:35 am
by phaedra1106
BASC statement from yesterday,
https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases ... pons-bill/
Or for those not wanting to use the link,
BASC gives evidence to MPs on Offensive Weapons Bill
Jul 19, 2018
BASC today gave evidence to members of the parliamentary Public Bill committee on the Offensive Weapons Bill.
When asked about the implications of the proposed ban on .50 calibre rifles within the bill, BASC’s director of communications and public affairs Christopher Graffius told members of the committee: “I am particularly concerned because it will take away a legitimate, lawful and safely-conducted sport at which we do particularly well in the World Championships.
“I think it also establishes a principle in law via muzzle energy which could be used to threaten even more commonly-used calibres and that could seriously damage shooting in the future.”
Mr Graffius gave evidence to the committee alongside BASC’s director of firearms Bill Harriman.
BASC previously told MPs that attempts to ban .50 calibre target rifles are disproportionate and not evidence-based.
When asked this morning whether he agreed with evidence the committee received on Tuesday from the NCA and NABIS, Mr Graffius said he did not.
He said: “I think one of the problems with rifles that are firing over 10,000 foot pounds, in particular the .50 calibre, at which this legislation was first aimed at is that very few people have seen one, even fewer have handled one and even fewer have pulled the trigger on one and there tends to be a lot of myth around it and I’m afraid that much of what you were told was either misleading or inaccurate and often quite ridiculous.”
Last month, BASC welcomed pledges that the government is listening to concerns over proposals to ban .50 calibre target rifles.
ENDS