New laws coming?

[bradaz11]

[quote="artiglio"
Try this response from an anti

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... OWB157.htm[/quote]

god, that was a hard read!

among other things, what does it matter if you are racist or right wing, why does that stop you from owning firearms?

[Daryll]

"Directed energy weapons"..

I haven't heard of many Phasers being used against people, apart from at Trekkie conventions...

[David24]

Difficult to imagine any clause outside the scope of the original proposals being adopted at this stage , as being so far from the initial consultation they should be exempted on the grounds of not following due process ( my words not legalise).
Though such proposals will likely form the basis of future reviews of firearm legislation. It almost turns the current proposals into a fishing expedition for criticism and suggested revision of legislation as a whole.
Next time round, s58,sgc and cartridges, reloading supply purchase and security, air rifles and pistols, home security etc etc.

Try this response from an anti

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... OWB157.htm

Agreed with the above poster this is a tough read. I have also been reading through a number of the evidence documents provided
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/20 ... 01719.html
At least there's a number of documents supporting shooting however I feel I still should write another letter to my MP.
I read this more and more but we really do need unity between all shooters.

[Gazza]

"Directed energy weapons"..

I haven't heard of many Phasers being used against people, apart from at Trekkie conventions...

Anyway, phasers can be set to stun....just like a lump of wood

[Blackstuff]

Now they're proposing to require safe/cabinet storage of S2 shotgun cartridges AND a Firearms Certificate to buy them (but still keep 'normal shotguns on a Shotgun Certificate ) I wonder if the tweed and blued barrels brigade will finally wake up?

[artiglio]

Now they're proposing to require safe/cabinet storage of S2 shotgun cartridges AND a Firearms Certificate to buy them (but still keep 'normal shotguns on a Shotgun Certificate ) I wonder if the tweed and blued barrels brigade will finally wake up?

“They” are proposing nothing, the amendments are ( to my mind) the opportunistic jumping on a bandwagon by individuals , but that said once in the open there will at some point be consideration given to each suggestion. As to “ tweed and blue barrels “ waking up, difficult to believe they won’t be able to successfully apply for an fac and install a few cabinets and as a result any changes be of little consequence to them.
If there is a problem of shotgun cartridges being brocken down and components used to create ammunition for illegal purposes, then the current legislation around possession of shotgun cartridges does seem lacking, not that it will make a huge difference instead just making things a little more difficult for the criminally minded.
Whilst society as a whole sees tightening ,already very efficient effective, gun control legislation rather than discussing wether the current penalties for breaking the legislation should be substantially increased, then the position of legal firearm owners is always going to be targeted. The law abiding will pretty much always comply with new legislation and as such the measures be presented as a success, its all about the misuse of statistics and the inability to prove that the legislation won’t make any real difference at street level, a tweak of recording practices in respect of firearm offences will enable just about any result to be produced.

Anyone who has not written to their mp should take the time to do so and if they have then do so again. It really does not take long to voice an opinion and little more effort to attend an mp’s surgery.

[bradaz11]

If there is a problem of shotgun cartridges being brocken down and components used to create ammunition for illegal purposes, then the current legislation around possession of shotgun cartridges does seem lacking, not that it will make a huge difference instead just making things a little more difficult for the criminally minded.

breaking up shotgun cartridges isn't going to help you a whole lot.

1 - aready an offense to manufacture and possess ammo without ticket.
2 - can't buy pistol/rifle primers without FAC
3 - think you have to have a SGC to buy cartridges, but not to posses.

so if you do break up cartridges, what do you get? fast powder, lead, a hull and a primer that doesn't fit anything else apart from muzzleloader conversions. you can buy powder anyway, same as lead and shotgun primers. so what do you get? If anything, its just ammo for illegally held shotgun that is being used illegally to do illegal things. therefore making another bit illegal won't really bother them much, but something like 75 yrs in prison for possession of a firearm might make some think twice.

[artiglio]

If there is a problem of shotgun cartridges being brocken down and components used to create ammunition for illegal purposes, then the current legislation around possession of shotgun cartridges does seem lacking, not that it will make a huge difference instead just making things a little more difficult for the criminally minded.

breaking up shotgun cartridges isn't going to help you a whole lot.

1 - aready an offense to manufacture and possess ammo without ticket.
2 - can't buy pistol/rifle primers without FAC
3 - think you have to have a SGC to buy cartridges, but not to posses.

so if you do break up cartridges, what do you get? fast powder, lead, a hull and a primer that doesn't fit anything else apart from muzzleloader conversions. you can buy powder anyway, same as lead and shotgun primers. so what do you get? If anything, its just ammo for illegally held shotgun that is being used illegally to do illegal things. therefore making another bit illegal won't really bother them much, but something like 75 yrs in prison for possession of a firearm might make some think twice.

A shotgun primer is 1 thou smaller than a large rifle/pistol primer, ( so google tells me) so a dab of super glue solves one problem. Shooters wish to produce the most accurate / cost effective / safe and efficient rounds they can, your average thug just wants something that goes bang and sends a projectile in general direction intended. So the powder will as far as they are concerned be fine ( wether it causes the firearm user any harm is likely not high on list of questions when ammunition is aquired). Then all that is required is a mould , melting pot and a bit of lead flashing along with some brass bought on line and a set of dies and you’re set to produce illegal ammunition and until you’ve done so unless you have all the components in one place it’d be difficult (to my understanding) to press charges.
So in all likelihood shotgun cartridges have value to some of the criminally minded, that no offence has occured if a sgc holder buys a slab and then gives it someone on the pretence of them being for legitimate use , is an oddity in terms of legislation and allows powder and primers to be held by anyone with no offence being committed (at least thats my understanding)
So it appears there is a relatively simple way of obtaining articles with which to break the law, and as i said above, society is choosing to apply greater restrictions to the law abiding rather than make the punishment for breaking the law a real deterrent. Until that mind set changes , IF as i said before there is misuse of shotgun cartridges in production of illegal ammunition (to any significant degree, though it will always be argued that one event is one too many)then making its purchase ,possession and storage subject to having an sgc and on similar terms to centre fire ammunition is an easy piece of legislation to propose , argue in favour of and get through. That it will make no difference on the street as a result of the criminals finding other sources of ammunition or components is of no interest as statistics will “prove” otherwise.
With an electorate largely ignorant of firearm use other than that presented in the media related to crime or terrorism, the legal firearm community has little choice but to fight its corner and accept that there will be changes, keeping these proportionate and reasonable is the challenge not stopping them.
But given the partisan nature of shooting interests / disciplines a united front is never forthcoming and will only arise when legislation covering a huge range of areas is proposed at one time, if the government chooses to legislate on a divide and conquer basis, they’ll get a much easier passage to the statute books.

At least thats my view. I’m happy to have any factually incorrect statements corrected.

[JSC]

As Artiglio says, I wouldn't get too excited about the amendments being put forward currently. They are unworkable and originate from a place called Ignorance.

Next committee meeting is tomorrow at 9.25am and 2pm if you want to witness more democracy in action.

[bradaz11]

If there is a problem of shotgun cartridges being brocken down and components used to create ammunition for illegal purposes, then the current legislation around possession of shotgun cartridges does seem lacking, not that it will make a huge difference instead just making things a little more difficult for the criminally minded.

breaking up shotgun cartridges isn't going to help you a whole lot.

1 - aready an offense to manufacture and possess ammo without ticket.
2 - can't buy pistol/rifle primers without FAC
3 - think you have to have a SGC to buy cartridges, but not to posses.

so if you do break up cartridges, what do you get? fast powder, lead, a hull and a primer that doesn't fit anything else apart from muzzleloader conversions. you can buy powder anyway, same as lead and shotgun primers. so what do you get? If anything, its just ammo for illegally held shotgun that is being used illegally to do illegal things. therefore making another bit illegal won't really bother them much, but something like 75 yrs in prison for possession of a firearm might make some think twice.

A shotgun primer is 1 thou smaller than a large rifle/pistol primer, ( so google tells me) so a dab of super glue solves one problem. Shooters wish to produce the most accurate / cost effective / safe and efficient rounds they can, your average thug just wants something that goes bang and sends a projectile in general direction intended. So the powder will as far as they are concerned be fine ( wether it causes the firearm user any harm is likely not high on list of questions when ammunition is aquired). Then all that is required is a mould , melting pot and a bit of lead flashing along with some brass bought on line and a set of dies and you’re set to produce illegal ammunition and until you’ve done so unless you have all the components in one place it’d be difficult (to my understanding) to press charges.
So in all likelihood shotgun cartridges have value to some of the criminally minded, that no offence has occured if a sgc holder buys a slab and then gives it someone on the pretence of them being for legitimate use , is an oddity in terms of legislation and allows powder and primers to be held by anyone with no offence being committed (at least thats my understanding)
So it appears there is a relatively simple way of obtaining articles with which to break the law, and as i said above, society is choosing to apply greater restrictions to the law abiding rather than make the punishment for breaking the law a real deterrent. Until that mind set changes , IF as i said before there is misuse of shotgun cartridges in production of illegal ammunition (to any significant degree, though it will always be argued that one event is one too many)then making its purchase ,possession and storage subject to having an sgc and on similar terms to centre fire ammunition is an easy piece of legislation to propose , argue in favour of and get through. That it will make no difference on the street as a result of the criminals finding other sources of ammunition or components is of no interest as statistics will “prove” otherwise.
With an electorate largely ignorant of firearm use other than that presented in the media related to crime or terrorism, the legal firearm community has little choice but to fight its corner and accept that there will be changes, keeping these proportionate and reasonable is the challenge not stopping them.
But given the partisan nature of shooting interests / disciplines a united front is never forthcoming and will only arise when legislation covering a huge range of areas is proposed at one time, if the government chooses to legislate on a divide and conquer basis, they’ll get a much easier passage to the statute books.

At least thats my view. I’m happy to have any factually incorrect statements corrected.

I agree with pretty much all of that, except that 209 primers arent 209, they are 240 from what I've seen
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... &view=next
but yeah, everyone in power wants to make a name and stay there, so as you say, they'll keep chipping away and never come close to solving the issue.