Permanently attached suppressors ?

[The Event]

To inject a bit of new life into this thread on a tangential topic,
Sound moderators & flash hiders are classed as firearms as per Sec.57 yet they are almost all under 60cm in length so why aren't they covered by Sec 5(1)(aba)?

[Gazza]

To inject a bit of new life into this thread on a tangential topic,
Sound moderators & flash hiders are classed as firearms as per Sec.57 yet they are almost all under 60cm in length so why aren't they covered by Sec 5(1)(aba)?

Another very valid point.

[breacher]

As I explained earlier.......

A component is regarded as a firearm in so much as it is controlled.

An ASSEMBLED firearm is subject to length restrictions. A component is not. So, your receiver, flash hider, suppressor etc do not have to be 24" overall length.

[Gazza]

Just to ask a question and to complicate things further..............
If a suppressor is on a slot related to a section 5 firearm then can that same suppressor be transferred to a section 1 firearm or must it stay section 5?

[ovenpaa]

As an aside and on the subject of S5 and S1:

A section 1 deactivation is just that, the deactivating of a S1 firearm and interestingly if you deact a S1 LBR and then remove the coat hanger and chop the barrel back to less than 12" it becomes a S1 deact post converted to S5 and as such is illegal until a deact cert for an S5 is issued.

[breacher]

Just to ask a question and to complicate things further..............
If a suppressor is on a slot related to a section 5 firearm then can that same suppressor be transferred to a section 1 firearm or must it stay section 5?

You would need to check with one of the rfds who build straight pull SLRs etc - they probably know more about use of components originally part ofa sec 5 firearm.

[breacher]

As an aside and on the subject of S5 and S1:

A section 1 deactivation is just that, the deactivating of a S1 firearm and interestingly if you deact a S1 LBR and then remove the coat hanger and chop the barrel back to less than 12" it becomes a S1 deact post converted to S5 and as such is illegal until a deact cert for an S5 is issued.

Thats a strange one !!

A firearm is defined as lethal barrelled. I would have thought that once deactivated, it was no longer lethal barrelled and as such no longer a firearm.

Curious indeed !!!

I do seem to recall someone asking whether a flash hider on a deactivated rifle was still a controlled part if it was taken off but no definitive answer was given. And like a lot of these questions, has not been in a court to have definitions clarified / case law.

[AR15]

Yep a good point.

Suppressors and flash hiders while being classified as a 'firearm' are not 'component parts' rather 'accessories' and as such are not defined in the same way.

Case Law:
R v Ashton, CA, 1 February 2007 seems to suggest that any part that stops the weapon functioning as it was designed would be a component part:

"Whether in fact this particular gas plug is a component part of a prohibited weapon, is a matter of fact for the court to decide the words have their ordinary natural meaning. as a matter of reasonable interpretation it means a part that is manufactured to the purpose screw or washer, would not be a component part for present purposes. Similarly, a component part must be a part that if it were removed, the Gun could not function without it."

'Could not function without it', a Suppressor or Flash Hider does not effect the function of the firearm and is therefore not a component part.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

Flash hider and Suppressors being exempt as non component parts.

[AR15]

As I explained earlier.......

A component is regarded as a firearm in so much as it is controlled.

An ASSEMBLED firearm is subject to length restrictions. A component is not. So, your receiver, flash hider, suppressor etc do not have to be 24" overall length.

Nonsense.

Please tell me if you think an assembled upper receiver WITHOUT a lower is an assembled firearm, so barrel, upper, bolt carrier group and handguard, muzzle brake and charging handle.

Lets for arguments sake say its got a 9.5'' barrel on it and a gas tube and gas block too.

Its just an upper assembly on its own, so is that a firearm?

[MistAgain]

Yep a good point.

Suppressors and flash hiders while being classified as a 'firearm' are not 'component parts' rather 'accessories' and as such are not defined in the same way.

Case Law:
R v Ashton, CA, 1 February 2007 seems to suggest that any part that stops the weapon functioning as it was designed would be a component part:

"Whether in fact this particular gas plug is a component part of a prohibited weapon, is a matter of fact for the court to decide the words have their ordinary natural meaning. as a matter of reasonable interpretation it means a part that is manufactured to the purpose screw or washer, would not be a component part for present purposes. Similarly, a component part must be a part that if it were removed, the Gun could not function without it."

'Could not function without it', a Suppressor or Flash Hider does not effect the function of the firearm and is therefore not a component part.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

Flash hider and Suppressors being exempt as non component parts.

There was a Court case about 8 years ago when a man was found guilty of having a flash hider from a H & K MP5 .
The crowns expert witness claimed that flash hiders were only used by criminals and assasins and the Judge agreed with him .

The flash hider had come from his pre ban MP5 ,( the MP5 was handed in ) .

He had however committed several other firearms offences .