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To inject a bit of new life into this thread on a tangential topic,
Sound moderators & flash hiders are classed as firearms as per Sec.57 yet they are almost all under 60cm in length so why aren't they covered by Sec 5(1)(aba)?

The Event wrote:To inject a bit of new life into this thread on a tangential topic,
Sound moderators & flash hiders are classed as firearms as per Sec.57 yet they are almost all under 60cm in length so why aren't they covered by Sec 5(1)(aba)?

Another very valid point.

As I explained earlier.......

A component is regarded as a firearm in so much as it is controlled.

An ASSEMBLED firearm is subject to length restrictions. A component is not. So, your receiver, flash hider, suppressor etc do not have to be 24" overall length.

Just to ask a question and to complicate things further..............
If a suppressor is on a slot related to a section 5 firearm then can that same suppressor be transferred to a section 1 firearm or must it stay section 5?

As an aside and on the subject of S5 and S1:

A section 1 deactivation is just that, the deactivating of a S1 firearm and interestingly if you deact a S1 LBR and then remove the coat hanger and chop the barrel back to less than 12" it becomes a S1 deact post converted to S5 and as such is illegal until a deact cert for an S5 is issued.

Gazza wrote:Just to ask a question and to complicate things further..............
If a suppressor is on a slot related to a section 5 firearm then can that same suppressor be transferred to a section 1 firearm or must it stay section 5?

You would need to check with one of the rfds who build straight pull SLRs etc - they probably know more about use of components originally part ofa sec 5 firearm.

Ovenpaa wrote:As an aside and on the subject of S5 and S1:

A section 1 deactivation is just that, the deactivating of a S1 firearm and interestingly if you deact a S1 LBR and then remove the coat hanger and chop the barrel back to less than 12" it becomes a S1 deact post converted to S5 and as such is illegal until a deact cert for an S5 is issued.

Thats a strange one !!

A firearm is defined as lethal barrelled. I would have thought that once deactivated, it was no longer lethal barrelled and as such no longer a firearm.

Curious indeed !!!

I do seem to recall someone asking whether a flash hider on a deactivated rifle was still a controlled part if it was taken off but no definitive answer was given. And like a lot of these questions, has not been in a court to have definitions clarified / case law.

Yep a good point.

Suppressors and flash hiders while being classified as a 'firearm' are not 'component parts' rather 'accessories' and as such are not defined in the same way.

Case Law:
R v Ashton, CA, 1 February 2007 seems to suggest that any part that stops the weapon functioning as it was designed would be a component part:

"Whether in fact this particular gas plug is a component part of a prohibited weapon, is a matter of fact for the court to decide the words have their ordinary natural meaning. as a matter of reasonable interpretation it means a part that is manufactured to the purpose screw or washer, would not be a component part for present purposes. Similarly, a component part must be a part that if it were removed, the Gun could not function without it."

'Could not function without it', a Suppressor or Flash Hider does not effect the function of the firearm and is therefore not a component part.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

Flash hider and Suppressors being exempt as non component parts.

breacher wrote:As I explained earlier.......

A component is regarded as a firearm in so much as it is controlled.

An ASSEMBLED firearm is subject to length restrictions. A component is not. So, your receiver, flash hider, suppressor etc do not have to be 24" overall length.

Nonsense.

Please tell me if you think an assembled upper receiver WITHOUT a lower is an assembled firearm, so barrel, upper, bolt carrier group and handguard, muzzle brake and charging handle.

Lets for arguments sake say its got a 9.5'' barrel on it and a gas tube and gas block too.

Its just an upper assembly on its own, so is that a firearm?

AR15 wrote:Yep a good point.

Suppressors and flash hiders while being classified as a 'firearm' are not 'component parts' rather 'accessories' and as such are not defined in the same way.

Case Law:
R v Ashton, CA, 1 February 2007 seems to suggest that any part that stops the weapon functioning as it was designed would be a component part:

"Whether in fact this particular gas plug is a component part of a prohibited weapon, is a matter of fact for the court to decide the words have their ordinary natural meaning. as a matter of reasonable interpretation it means a part that is manufactured to the purpose screw or washer, would not be a component part for present purposes. Similarly, a component part must be a part that if it were removed, the Gun could not function without it."

'Could not function without it', a Suppressor or Flash Hider does not effect the function of the firearm and is therefore not a component part.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

Flash hider and Suppressors being exempt as non component parts.

There was a Court case about 8 years ago when a man was found guilty of having a flash hider from a H & K MP5 .
The crowns expert witness claimed that flash hiders were only used by criminals and assasins and the Judge agreed with him .

The flash hider had come from his pre ban MP5 ,( the MP5 was handed in ) .

He had however committed several other firearms offences .