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Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:38 am
by Sandgroper
breacher wrote:A quick look at the US forums and the consensus is "Never mind what its design was intended for - call it whatever is legal in your state".
There are even for sale threads where the seller is asked if he would not mind changing the title on the receipt.
And opinion is divided on what was intended.........
Was it "We need a flash hider which still hides flash but which does not throw up dust"
Or was it "We no longer need a flash hider - flash is no longer a problem. Make us a compensator instead"
Without a look at the original spec request, I guess we will never know.
My guess is it was the former. Any compensation effect was a welcome bonus.
Getting back to the UK - Southern Gun, parabellum consulting and NWCP call them flash hiders.
The term "flash hider" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't designed to hide the flash from an observer but to prevent the shooter from blinded by the flash in low light conditions. Whether a flash hider as we know it meets the legal definition of an
accessory designed or adapted to diminish noise or flash is for someone more learned than myself. However, I suspect that clause in the Firearms act was meant solely for sound moderators...
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:06 am
by Blackstuff
If a muzzle brake/compensator with slots all the way around is a flash hider AND flash hiders (as we're describing them) are licensable parts then every single S&W M&P 15-22 sold in this country has been done so illegally as they all come with removable bird cage (slots all the way around) 'flash hider'
They have the standard 1/2" UNF thread which would allow it to be fitted to firearms which could actually make use of such a device.
FYI I've asked BASC, the Sportsmans Association and my FLD on two occasions (years apart) and they all said the muzzle devices sold on guns are considered accessories and not licensable.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:55 am
by MistAgain
I think a couple of Ruger 10//22 variants come with flash hiders .
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:45 am
by TattooedGun
I can confirm that it is definitely NOT just meant for supressors and that Flash hiders are indeed licensable accessories, as per moderators.
http://blog.stegough.com/flash-hiders-a ... in-the-uk/
Exactly how a device is determined as a flash hider or muzzle break is contentious, personally if it's mentioned in the patent/design brief/spec that it is a device to help minimize the flash of a firearm, then it would be under that category. But that's my opinion and not that of the home office.
However it is the view of the Home office that the wording was put into the legislation to license flash hiders and not just a catch all for suppressors. See the link for more information, including the response from the Home Office on the matter.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:26 am
by Sandgroper
As that is the current HO interpretation of the what the 1968 act meant, my question is - was that the intention of the act at the time of drafting? I suspect not...but I don't know. Also, I wasn't here before 1988 so I don't know if flash hiders were regarded in this way back then but I think they only became an issue here when they became an issue in the States. Again only my opinion.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:02 pm
by Blackstuff
So reading that it seems they are controlled, but no indications given on what does or doesn't constitute a 'flash hider'. To my mind I can only think of two such devices and that would be on the AK 74SU and Colt XM177, both of which are more like combustion chambers to reduce the flash because of the shortened barrels on those guns from the shooters perspective.
'Bird cage' muzzle devices, to my mind anyway, INCREASE the visible flash, both to the shooter and target, as rather than a slim cone of fire they are massive widened into a star/cross etc of fire??
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:19 pm
by snayperskaya
The muzzle device on the AK-74u, and the AK-104, are designed as a muzzle booster to increase gas pressure for cycling the action due to the much shorter barrel length of these carbines.
That said they will operate perfectly without the booster fitted but they assist with raising gas pressure when the rifle is operated in severe cold and/or high altitude situations......same reason the Dragunov has a two-position adjustable regulator.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:21 pm
by TattooedGun
snayperskaya wrote:The muzzle device on the AK-74u, and the AK-104, are designed as a muzzle booster to increase gas pressure for cycling the action due to the much shorter barrel length of these carbines.
That said they will operate perfectly without the booster fitted but they assist with raising gas pressure when the rifle is operated in severe cold and/or high altitude situations......same reason the Dragunov has a two-position adjustable regulator.
Everyday a school day.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:53 pm
by snayperskaya
TattooedGun wrote:snayperskaya wrote:The muzzle device on the AK-74u, and the AK-104, are designed as a muzzle booster to increase gas pressure for cycling the action due to the much shorter barrel length of these carbines.
That said they will operate perfectly without the booster fitted but they assist with raising gas pressure when the rifle is operated in severe cold and/or high altitude situations......same reason the Dragunov has a two-position adjustable regulator.
Everyday a school day.
Forgot to add that the AK-74u muzzle booster is chrome-lined and also helps burn any unburnt powder that may occur from the short barrel......the two parallel notches in the end of the boooster are there so in the event of the booster seizing on due to corrosion from lack of cleaning the corrosive salts from military ammo a cleaning rod can be placed in the notches and used to provide additional leverage to remove the booster.
Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:58 pm
by Sandgroper
Blackstuff wrote:So reading that it seems they are controlled, but no indications given on what does or doesn't constitute a 'flash hider'. To my mind I can only think of two such devices and that would be on the AK 74SU and Colt XM177, both of which are more like combustion chambers to reduce the flash because of the shortened barrels on those guns from the shooters perspective.
'Bird cage' muzzle devices, to my mind anyway, INCREASE the visible flash, both to the shooter and target, as rather than a slim cone of fire they are massive widened into a star/cross etc of fire??
You would think so, but they are quite effective at reducing the seen flash from the firers perspective, but then so are some brakes. The most effective device is a sound moderator. Which takes us back to what was meant in the Act when it was first drafted and not the modern interpretation which we are stuck with.
