New laws coming?

[Alberto]

I'm on your side chaps. All I'm saying is that you need to look at the big picture and think long term if you want to make shooting and gun ownership secure in the UK.

Do you disagree that most people will have little sympathy for 50cal shooters or MARS gun owners? Don't shoot the messenger here I'm not saying I agree with that view, just that most members of the general public won't be in your corner on this. Now it's not a certain defeat even if the government can get their act together long enough to push it through. So I'm not saying roll over or do nothing I'm just saying think carefully if this is the line you want to 'die in a ditch' over. Are the limited resources of the national shooting organisations better spent fighting a probably doomed battle for 50 cals in the courts or growing shooting at a grassroots level so that future fights are winnable?

I am sympathetic though, I'd be livid if it was me and I'm happy to 'do my bit' for the cause.




Sent from my boing using "An application"

[Dark Skies]

Rather than a "not one more inch" attitude, I'd stick to evidence based argument.

If there is evidence of a problem - we need to be prepared to react proportionately. If we found that target rifles were being acquired / converted / used for criminal acts etc. then new laws may be appropriate.

However, in this case, there appears to be absolutely no reason to ban .50 cal rifles over here. No one is at more risk from that specific calibre, so whether the ban would affect 1 lawful shooter or 1 million, we should fight it.

What we don't want, is to come across like the polarised "from my cold dead hands" type of gun owner. We're reasonable people, so we need to show we listen to reason (and only oppose the unreasonable).

None of our firearms law has been based on reason in the past so I think it's safe to say we can focus on the not one inch mentality (otherwise anything else is to concede defeat before we've even started) and the evidence based arguments.
We were reasonable in the past, ever so reasonable. Which is how we all ended up being given appointments to meekly hand over our legally owned property and accept the punishment and public vengeance that Hamilton had avoided.

[ordnance]

Do you disagree that most people will have little sympathy for 50cal shooters or MARS gun owners? Don't shoot the messenger here I'm not saying I agree with that view, just that most members of the general public won't be in your corner on this.

Most of the general public would not care if all firearms were banned tomorrow and will have little sympathy for any firearms shooters, so if you are relying on public support outside the shooting community forget it. Its hard enough to get support in the shooting community unless it effects their particular firearms or shooting discipline, lots are happy to sacrifice other shooters firearms as long as it does not effect them.

[Dellboy]

I'm on your side chaps. All I'm saying is that you need to look at the big picture and think long term if you want to make shooting and gun ownership secure in the UK.

Do you disagree that most people will have little sympathy for 50cal shooters or MARS gun owners? Don't shoot the messenger here I'm not saying I agree with that view, just that most members of the general public won't be in your corner on this. Now it's not a certain defeat even if the government can get their act together long enough to push it through. So I'm not saying roll over or do nothing I'm just saying think carefully if this is the line you want to 'die in a ditch' over. Are the limited resources of the national shooting organisations better spent fighting a probably doomed battle for 50 cals in the courts or growing shooting at a grassroots level so that future fights are winnable?

I am sympathetic though, I'd be livid if it was me and I'm happy to 'do my bit' for the cause.




Sent from my boing using "An application"

Most shooting people will be outraged at any attempt to take away a firearm , most have learnt that we need to support any form of shooting from airguns to 50 cal ,even airsoft and paintball , as they are all steps towards taking away everything .One member of the club you and i belong to will lose 2 guns ,wonder how he feels . But you appear to be up for sacrifice his enjoyment to keep yours . Imagine having ordered (or bought and stored ) a straight pull rifle it suddenly becomes illegal as a rapid fire gun ,you loose ,how would you feel as a clay shooter says 'well i dont care i dont shoot them '

[shugie]

I'm prepared to argue the case on the basis I may one day want to shoot either a 50 cal for entertainment value, or a lever release as an interesting addition to my black gun collection.

[SevenSixTwo]

...how would you feel as a clay shooter says 'well i dont care i dont shoot them '

Fudd. They're the worst - and that's how most of them actually do think.

At the end of the day, politicians have us by the balls when they say "think of the children"... "if it saves one life". The public love it. clapclap

[Alberto]

Hi Del,

I think you're being unfair. I know who you are talking about and I don't want anyone's firearms to be sacrificed, especially not people I know personally and like. And even more especially not so I can keep my own favourites. If you knew me better you would know that is not like me at all. My comments were all based on what I see as the best long term objective strategy to reverse the disarmament trend.

I seem to be alone though, so Perhaps, as you say, I just don't understand. I hope you are right.


Sent from my boing using "An application"

[Chuck]

Do you disagree that most people will have little sympathy for 50cal shooters or MARS gun owners?

Just WHO are "most people in this? If it is other members of the shootng fraternity then they really are part of the problem for sure.

[Brian838]

I'm on your side chaps. All I'm saying is that you need to look at the big picture and think long term if you want to make shooting and gun ownership secure in the UK.

Do you disagree that most people will have little sympathy for 50cal shooters or MARS gun owners? Don't shoot the messenger here I'm not saying I agree with that view, just that most members of the general public won't be in your corner on this. Now it's not a certain defeat even if the government can get their act together long enough to push it through. So I'm not saying roll over or do nothing I'm just saying think carefully if this is the line you want to 'die in a ditch' over. Are the limited resources of the national shooting organisations better spent fighting a probably doomed battle for 50 cals in the courts or growing shooting at a grassroots level so that future fights are winnable?

I am sympathetic though, I'd be livid if it was me and I'm happy to 'do my bit' for the cause.




Sent from my boing using "An application"

Most shooting people will be outraged at any attempt to take away a firearm , most have learnt that we need to support any form of shooting from airguns to 50 cal ,even airsoft and paintball , as they are all steps towards taking away everything .One member of the club you and i belong to will lose 2 guns ,wonder how he feels . But you appear to be up for sacrifice his enjoyment to keep yours . Imagine having ordered (or bought and stored ) a straight pull rifle it suddenly becomes illegal as a rapid fire gun ,you loose ,how would you feel as a clay shooter says 'well i dont care i dont shoot them '

Exactly my thoughts. I've seen posts from people who shoot .22 semi-autos bragging about buying another one (smiley face) as this is all nothing to worry about for them. A VZ58 MARS looks similar to an AK, a SGC lever release looks exactly like an AR15. If we roll over for these, is it really too much of a stretch of the imagination for a politician who knows nothing about shooting sports to think, 'hey that was easy, what else looks a bit scary that we can get rid of to make the public feel safe and get us more votes?'
Then suddenly we are in the realms of 'military style firearms'. Bye bye Lantac .22, S&W MP 15-22 and all the .22 versions of 'military' rifles. I don't shoot .50 cal, but I will support them to the hilt if their sport is under threat, because that would be a threat to us all.

[Gazza]

...how would you feel as a clay shooter says 'well i dont care i dont shoot them '

Fudd. They're the worst - and that's how most of them actually do think.

At the end of the day, politicians have us by the balls when they say "think of the children"... "if it saves one life". The public love it. clapclap

And the shooting fraternity reply should be............. Is that to offset all the children you c**ts are killing in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Etc, etc,etc