The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Registration
Certification
Confiscation

I doubt we will be able to own a bow and arrow in 20 years time.


G.M.

Blu wrote: Okay look lets start again, first off I wasn't trawling for an argument, I was putting what I think out there, that's all nothing more, so on that score no worries, we'll put it down to me reading it wrong.

I accept that what you wrote weren't arguments against licensing, but the thing is every time something like this comes up or something to do with people (or animals) being injured with guns, out comes the stuff like that. The way I see it, that just doesn't wash any more if indeed it ever did. We know for a fact people kill or injure with cars, knives, bottles or whatever, but we can't use that as reasoning to fight our corner.

The majority of people to a degree understand cars, see them everyday, same with knives, they see them as tools of everyday life, not so with guns. The majority of folks in the UK have a very limited understanding of guns and along with what they read or see in the media that makes them frightening things that shouldn't be allowed.

And that's exactly the issue isn't it. The Powers That Be realised a long time ago they can't tackle real problems, so they look for groups of people or things to blame. Airguns is just one of many innocent objects vilified by those with an agenda.
Animal cruelty won't stop, neither will injuries, robberies or anything else nefarious that air guns may, illegally already, be used for. I can't help but wonder what this country would be like if we'd not been made afraid of firearms and the people who own them for so many years. But making them scary was just one more string to the bow of population control that's been used to mollify this country into the harmless sheep we are today (generally, there are still wolves).
My remarks weren't points, just frustration that the bleeding obvious is avoided by the Powers and the general public in favour of minor, easy wins, because major wins are too much like hard work.

Blu wrote: Okay I take on board the thing about specific points. You ask what can be done, well the way I see it, small group or not you have to make your voices heard, you have no choice because as you point out the shooting fraternity run the risk of having their sport impacted in a major way that could possibly, have been limited. To me the choice is very clear.

Me too mate, and to most people it affects, or doesn't, I'm sure.
I'm not sure why more of those who will be directly affected haven't had more to say about it and it's sad that more of those not directly affected haven't stood up to show solidarity and support.

Blu wrote:

Code: Select all

I didn't know at the time, I'm not sure how these things are delivered to the masses either.

Okay again I accept that but let me ask you a question friend, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass or be stroppy here, did you actually go looking for any information on it. Dude I'm four thousand miles away, this doesn't affect me in the slightest, but I took the time to see what I could do about it and I actually tried to take part and make my views known to the Scottish Government via the public consultation website that was open to the public from November 14th 2013 to March 15th 2014 for the public to give their input. Unfortunately because of my location, the website wasn't set up to let me, me having a non UK address.

It doesn't affect me either, yet. TBH it never really entered my sphere, and when it did it was too late, as far as I could tell the consultations were over last year according to this: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justi ... nlicensing
Otherwise I would have voiced my opinion and suggestions. If the chance came up again I would try to get involved.

Blu wrote:I have to say that I was very surprised at what I consider to be the very low number of 1,101 people who did give their views given the number of shooting sportsmen/women there are in the UK. Saying that though, it could be that your last line of your post "Shooters are where they always are, hiding in their little niche hoping the winds of change blow right by them, whispering to themselves over and over "I'm alright Jack"." has more truth to it than we know.

If that's the case you're only screwing yourselves and making the job of the antis so much easier.

Blu

Hell yes. British shooters are their own worst enemy and will be at least jointly-responsible for the death of the sport.
Couple that insulation with the proliferation of our national shooting bodies, their ulterior focus and complete lack of a unified direction and I think this may be one of my more short-lived hobbies, not by choice.
Unless we can stand together with one voice we'll be shouted down by a torrent of sound-bites, media spin and public agenda.

Demonic69. I've been an area NRA rep for a good number of years now and the couple of things I've learned when it comes to dealing with the media, government and the antis are quite simple. Basically I use the K.I.S.S principle, (Keep It Simple Son). I used to follow the "cars, knifes kill more people thing" but then I saw it for what it was. The antis and government don't care how many people are killed by cars or a knife, it isn't a part of their agenda.

The only three ways to beat them is 1. With cold hard facts, don't embellish or try and use them to suit your own agenda, that's what they do and once you start to embellish facts, chances are it can be disproved. So keep if factual and keep it truthful.

2. Bombard the media and government with facts and protest. Email or write government representatives as many times as it takes and in great numbers and remind them of who works for who. If you don't think it works then let me remind you of the attempted magazine grab we had over here last year. Federal representatives in Congress were reminded millions of times every day just exactly who it was they worked for, so much so that even a few Democrats voted down that bill.

As for the media, every time they put out their uninformed drivel about firearms again bombard them with emails to the editor and on their comments pages. You'd be amazed how much of a message and education you can get over on comments sections as long as you keep it factual and indisputable, and it can be especially educational for the the folks who have swallowed the media line when you shoot the antis BS down with truth and facts.

3. Unity and strength in numbers regardless of shooting discipline. I couldn't care what a person shoots or what their favourite shooting discipline is, they come to me with a problem that hinders their participation in their legally recognized sport, and I'm all over like fleas on a fox. I will do everything legally in my power no matter what it takes to ensure the sportsman or woman can carry on their sport in peace.

If you have unity it works, up until about ten years ago the antis and some of the tree huggers were harassing law abiding men and women during hunting seasons. As a result of the unity of the sportsmen and women and by using every legal means at our disposal along with petitioning and bombarding a mainly Democrat/Liberal Congress, a bill was passed into law making it illegal to harass or impede sportsmen and women in the legal pursuit of hunting. Strength in numbers is one thing but unity is everything if you want to win.

Blu

Graham M wrote:Registration
Certification
Confiscation

I doubt we will be able to own a bow and arrow in 20 years time.


G.M.

Then fight it, if you'll pardon the expression, get your $h1t together and fight it. Sitting in front of a computer complaining about it on a forum won't get it done. Instead use all the shooting forums as a tool to get organised and legally fight it. Way I see it from over here and reading about what's happening over there, you folks really don't have any other choice if you want to keep your chosen sport alive.

With all due respects folks, I've been banging this drum since this forum open up for business back in 2010, seen lots of grumbling and talk about how it's all going to be taken away. Time for grumbles is over guys, use it or lose it.

Blu

How is it fought and organised over there Blu? Individually, through forums or by national shooting bodies, or all or none?

Demonic69 wrote:How is it fought and organised over there Blu? Individually, through forums or by national shooting bodies, or all or none?

For the most part all four of those. Individually by writing and emailing State or National reps everyday until they get the message. Using the forums to get the word out to bombard government reps with mail and emails, also by using the national shooting bodies to support and if need be take the government or anti group to court if needs be. So in a way it's all or none. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that it's the politicians who wield the power, well nothing could be further from the truth because without the people who put them where they are, they have no power. The real power lays in the hands of the people.

Look I understand that numbers here are greater and I'm sure someone will remind me of the vast amounts of money our national shooting bodies take in which enables them to fight in the courts. Thing is though, the maths for the UK has already been done on these very pages. you really do have the numbers and could have the money to fight your corner in court if you had to, but you need to be united first to do so.

Blu

Here is a little bit of info for you. Last year, the day after the magazine ban was announced, one of the State Representatives, Carl Levin (Democrat) reported that his office computers received over 3.5 million emails from outraged voting Michiganders over the proposed ban. The population of Michigan is 9.83 million men women and children with a good many of them not of legal voting age. He voted for the ban and now retires this year, basically he committed political suicide.

Blu

The airgun licencing hasn't been well subscribed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37999459

Edited to add - what a ridiculous statement from the government!

"Furthermore, Police Scotland are not yet seeing many applications from people who already hold a firearm or shotgun certificate. Applications from existing certificate holders are not required until existing certificates require to be renewed, after 30 December."

Been having a think about the upcoming Scottish airgun fiasco today....

According to the Scottish guidance at http://airweapon.scot/images/uploads/do ... e_2016.pdf

The Chief Constable may only grant or renew a certificate if satisfied that the applicant:
- is fit to be entrusted with an air weapon
- is not prohibited from possessing an air weapon or other firearm under section 21 of the Firearms Act 1968;
- has a good reason for using, possessing, purchasing or acquiring an air weapon

Notice the last point? Has a good reason...

But then the guidance goes on to say...."the Government will generally expect the police to take a lighter approach, in most cases, than might be required in the case of a shot gun or firearms application under the 1968 Act."

As far as i know, there is no requirement to provide a reason to possess a SGC? So which is it....

After Jan 1st in Scotland, do you have to provide a reason for an airgun but not a shotgun? If that's the case....nice one Wee Jimme Krankie

The other genius aspect of all this, is starting the amnesty before the licences were available (or the requirement period had even started)