"In the Wrong Hands" Mk. 2

[dromia]

Naw, it is a Westley Richards 310 Cadet.

[Mattnall]

I believe that the owner has been charged with possessing one pump rifle and some ammo.

So all the other 29 'firearms' are legal.
But as soon as someone uses it illegally then it becomes a firearm.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said Dean Stokes, 50, a gardener, of Balmoral Road, Leyton, east London, would appear in custody at Thames Magistrates' Court tomorrow charged with one count of possession of a pump action rifle, contrary to Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968, and one count of possession of ammunition without a certificate, contrary to Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968.

[PaulR]

I believe that the owner has been charged with possessing one pump rifle and some ammo.

So all the other 29 'firearms' are legal.
But as soon as someone uses it illegally then it becomes a firearm.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said Dean Stokes, 50, a gardener, of Balmoral Road, Leyton, east London, would appear in custody at Thames Magistrates' Court tomorrow charged with one count of possession of a pump action rifle, contrary to Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968, and one count of possession of ammunition without a certificate, contrary to Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968.

So, no deadly Assault Rifles then.

They got him fair and square for the S5 Pump unless it's in an obsolete caliber but he had some ammo so Section 1 charge as well. Should be a mandatory 5 year sentence but it'll be interesting to see what he gets.

I expect the Police, papers and the Beeb will be putting out revised stories now headlined "East London arsenal one of biggest eeeeer, smallest hauls, say police".

[Fedaykin]

Which then begs another question does Mr.Stokes, 50 yrs old and a Gardner have anything to do do with the London street gang sub culture?

I bet he wasn't, exactly the same as the gentleman making 3D printer parts! Remember the press release on that one, he was apparently feeding guns to the gangs of Manchester. They made much of that and the high power sniper rifle, plastic magazine and trigger they had found with the press. Despite the fact that neither a trigger or magazine are restricted components and the man arrested owned a hobby shop selling model parts and trinkets to the local Goths and the sniper rifle was a standard FT air rifle that he shot with his local club. They also kept very quiet when it was pointed out that the plastic magazine and trigger were actually spare parts for that printer! They kept very quiet didn't they despite the damage being done in respect of public knowledge!

I was chatting on the phone earlier today with a good friend of mine who is an rfd, section 1 black powder and 7.3 pistol owner. We both agreed that the average street gang members are hardly going to see an antique section 58(2)pistol as an ideal solution or loophole to accessing a gun for the simple reason they are not exactly cheap! Many are way over £1000 and £2500+ is not unusual.

Frankly I would be far more bothered about shotguns, it is far easier to source them there are so many kicking about and technically you can buy many of the parts without any issue and finally you don't need a ticket to own the cartridges which to my mind is an almost absurd loop hole in uk firearms law.

So same old same old the Police do a big song and dance press release about a haul of dangerous guns that are being used by street gangs and it transpires that it is some guys airgun collection plus one firearm he should not be in possession of! Just remember the song and dance when that couple found some assorted ammunition in their pond...

It is the same every time a huge panicky press release!

[Gaz]

I tried tweeting at Justin Davenport, the Evening Standard journo who wrote that article. I think I'd do better emailing him - and I shall be doing just that, to point out all the police spin-doctored crap he's unthinkingly regurgitated.
I notice he mentions "campaigners" without pointing out that they're undoubtedly police officers and their public relations departments pushing their preferred line. Bearing in mind that police-journalist relations are at a historic low, following the senior-level crackdown on police employees who don't/won't follow the press office line, the people talking to Davenport from NABIS may well be the only off-the-record contacts he has left. From professional interest, he's going to want to keep them sweet (by giving them an easy pass with a "campaign" like this) in case they can do him a favour with another crime-related topic later on.

The problem is that the Standard's sub-editors (the last line of defence against single-sourced crap being published... well, that's the theory) are, I gather, youngish urbanites whose knowledge of firearms and the law comes entirely from Grand Theft Auto and police press releases. When an experienced correspondent or editor files something that sounds convincing on a reasonably technical topic like this, I can imagine them letting it pass and thinking he's clearly done his research. Can you imagine trying to learn about firearms law and the practical application of Section 58 within half an hour via Google? No, me neither - and that's how stuff like this gets into print.

I'd welcome (repeatable!) suggestions for things to say to him in my email. What would be ideal is if we could take him to Bisley or somewhere and show him what an antique firearm actually is - none of this Browning HP bollox! - and have a legally knowledgeable person explain how Section 58 works in practice.

[Fedaykin]

I think for me Gaz that the major thing that needs to be conveyed to the press is when they are fed a story like this from a single source about anything to do with shooting there are a number of bodies they can fact check with before going to press and it might even be an opportunity to make a better story.

For example this particular police and NABIS scare story about Section 58 (2) has a number of factual inaccuracies, exaggerations and darn right lies. The most glaring being Browning Hi-powers and Webley MK.IV soon falling under Section 58(2). If they fact checked first with Bisley, BASC, Sportsman association or somebody like Gaz who is in the know they could go back to the in question police force or NABIS and ask:

"Why have you made these factual inaccurate statements, our readers would be interested to know why" and if those organisations do the "we will cut you out of interesting news stories if you don't report what we want" the press can reply "well we shall report that you are blatantly lying!" It is a bug bear for me but we need to wean the press off this whole unnamed and unaccountable sources thing! Again I put up a link to this Charlie Brooker video because I really think it makes the point about the police and press releases!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yHEsWAwrt0

[Fedaykin]

Oh and I read through your debate with "Matt the special constable" on Twitter Gaz! Fascinating and depressing in equal measures! He certainly is "Special" but not for the reasons he seems to think!

He did get a bit tetchy when you suggested better training for the police clapclap

A link to the debate via Twitter for those who want a laugh or cry!

https://twitter.com/Matt_The_Mac

[dromia]

Do you need to join that forum to get the full debate, all the postings seem to be truncated into a couple of lines that don't really make any sense?

[Fedaykin]

Alas that is how Twitter works Dromia, you have to click and expand and then try make sense of it all!

[dromia]

Even when you expand it there is still only a couple of lines to each post where is the rest of it?