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IF you need to go down the ITAR route I may be up for splitting some of the costs of it - as I have a US source for Mossberg 590, 24" barrels (which I know yourself & the Elliot sisters may be interested in - as they're about $100 ea.) plus I need another Mossberg barrel for my 870 & a "Buck Special" barrel for my Auto5
The logistics at this end will be easy as S.2 barrels are free of control

Blackstuff wrote:That takes us back to my last post on Page 1. Who is the US citizen on that form and can it be filled in there and then in store, or would i have to know what i wanted before i got there and somehow get one store to act as the US citizen even if the magazines/over the counter parts are coming from several stores??

Thanks for sticking with this by the way!

FYI the DTI have not come back to me with any answers, unsurprisingly.

Chase them up or call them, it's their job to answer your firearm import queries.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n-2015.pdf

enquiries.ilb@bis.gsi.gov.uk
Roy Smiles Tel 01642 364334

Techguy has already answered. The seller would be the US Citizen but you won't find an average gun store in the US that exports that's why you need an FFL that specialises in exports. They can also act as a hub for all your purchases.

The DSP 83 form is the application for the export licence that the US Citizen submits to the US government, not the export licence itself. You need to wait for the licence to be granted once you have filled it out to let them know exactly what you're buying along with your PO which lists everything eg. make, model, serial number and price etc. and your letter from Roy at DTI to say you don't need an import licence. Unless you are a commercial operation, in which case you do.

Shops don't care what they sell to you as long as it is legal in their state and you have paid for it It's up to you to make sure you are legal if moving between states, exporting and importing. That's where your FFL, export licence and the DTI comes in.

It's an easy process and relatively cost effective if you import a fair lot. Was more hassle applying for my parking permit in the UK, but thats the council for you.

To clear up some of the mis-information in this thread:

ONLY a US Citizen can apply for an ITAR based export license.
The cost is high. First of you have to be ITAR registered to apply for an export license, which is $2250. Every year you use an export license that is $250 added to the cost, that is NOT per export license. You could have 1, or 100 approved export licenses, it'd still be $250.
You also need a digital certificate for submitting licenses, this is per employee submitting, so can get expensive.
Usually the US side will also be an FFL, which has its own costs.

Almost everything is covered under ITAR, automatically gun parts over $100 value and anything else on the US Munitions list. If its made for a gun which has any military application you can bet the US Govt will agree its controlled. Screws, pins etc. Even some software is covered depending on its encryption level.
Hell, even knowledge is ITAR controlled, as an example I recently had to apply for and receive an approved ITAR export agreement to teach a UK Citizen in firearms instruction.

If the original maker of the product doesn't have ITAR registration, the export of one of their products can trigger a US side investigation too. There is a stock manufacturer in the USA that isn't ITAR registered and I have seen a couple of his products in the UK. If there is ever an audit, that stock manufacturer will be liable for all the back taxes for ITAR.

Once you get your export license you also have to do the AES paperwork to let customs know its approved for leaving the country.

This is why it's expensive to export things from the USA.

The of course you have freight from the US to the UK. That costs on a volumetric basis, plus the freight forwarder fee and then the landing fees at Heathrow, the VAT and import duty etc.

So basically this is why things that are relatively inexpensive in the USA cost quite a lot in the UK if they are imported correctly.

You could of course just stick some stuff in a suitcase and bring it over, but before you do that ask Guy Savage how that worked out for him....

Montana wrote:To clear up some of the mis-information in this thread:

ONLY a US Citizen can apply for an ITAR based export license.
The cost is high. First of you have to be ITAR registered to apply for an export license, which is $2250. Every year you use an export license that is $250 added to the cost, that is NOT per export license. You could have 1, or 100 approved export licenses, it'd still be $250.
You also need a digital certificate for submitting licenses, this is per employee submitting, so can get expensive.
Usually the US side will also be an FFL, which has its own costs.

Almost everything is covered under ITAR, automatically gun parts over $100 value and anything else on the US Munitions list. If its made for a gun which has any military application you can bet the US Govt will agree its controlled. Screws, pins etc. Even some software is covered depending on its encryption level.
Hell, even knowledge is ITAR controlled, as an example I recently had to apply for and receive an approved ITAR export agreement to teach a UK Citizen in firearms instruction.

If the original maker of the product doesn't have ITAR registration, the export of one of their products can trigger a US side investigation too. There is a stock manufacturer in the USA that isn't ITAR registered and I have seen a couple of his products in the UK. If there is ever an audit, that stock manufacturer will be liable for all the back taxes for ITAR.

Once you get your export license you also have to do the AES paperwork to let customs know its approved for leaving the country.

This is why it's expensive to export things from the USA.

The of course you have freight from the US to the UK. That costs on a volumetric basis, plus the freight forwarder fee and then the landing fees at Heathrow, the VAT and import duty etc.

So basically this is why things that are relatively inexpensive in the USA cost quite a lot in the UK if they are imported correctly.

You could of course just stick some stuff in a suitcase and bring it over, but before you do that ask Guy Savage how that worked out for him....

Thanks for clarifying (from an FFL perspective) but where is the mis-information? The OP was asking from an end users point of view so process is as described and would still cost $250 per export.

Grizzly - a poster earlier in the thread says each export license costs $250. That is not correct. Especially as end users don't usually qualify as ITAR exporters, one has to be an FFL or a Manufacturer or otherwise registered as ITAR controlled.

It's not something someone at home can do as a DSP-5 is only issued to people who are registered under ITAR and they have FFLs (for the most part) or are registered an manufacturing ITAR controlled items and other such things. I guess its technically possible you could get a one off approval but I've never heard of it. As an example you must have paid the $2250 ITAR registration fee, plus they need your DUNS and CAGE to quickly process the license. CAGE is optional I think, DUNS is mandatory.
So even for a one time export, your paperwork fees are $3K.

In a post later there was also some confusion over DPS83, that is simply a form that goes alongside an application, it is not the export license or the export license application. The DSP-5 is the export license. The application for a DSP-5 requires the following:
Application itself which is done on a Government controlled IBM online form
DSP-83 (explanation of what you intend to export)
Contract (seller and buyer contract agreeing to sell/buy)
Certification Letter (US Citizen letter saying you are authorized to export)
Explanation of use (what is the end user going to do with the items, if the answer is build a technical truck and shoot kafirs then likely to be denied ;-)
Import License (if applicable)
Letter of Intent (signed by the end user)
Order of goods (the actual purchase order for everything on the export license)
Freight Forwarder information (99% of people use forwarders as it's illegal to ship via USPS and Fedex generally deny transport, so things are mostly moved via forwarders at key airports)
And any supplementary evidence such as prior approvals etc.
The above constitutes a valid application that is likely to be approved.

As someone else pointed out, specific details are needed. In the old days (1 year ago ish) they would approve 'AR-15 Receiver'. That is no longer the case and they want specific make/model etc before approving.

This is actually a good thing for people like me because I have legal exclusivity on a couple of products which customs have copies of, so if someone tries to export an item only I'm allowed to export, their shipment gets held and denied.

The US side of it, because of ITAR, is very time consuming and paperwork heavy.

In previous posts people have made it seem easy, it might be if you are one of the many people who use exporting FFLs who do this business (as you may have guessed I am one of those) but in reality the paperwork burden is huge and hard to do for a single sender and end user type arrangement and unless its high value, not financially viable.

The large FFL exporters do it because of servicing multiple customers therefore costs are spread.

The point I am making is from an end users point of view, one a one time item, its a near insurmountable task and very expensive.

That does not stop people buying things in the USA and filling a suitcase etc. The issue there of course is the US Customs and the US Defense directorate take a dim view of such things and have issued warrants for people caught doing it, like Guy Savage mentioned above.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011 ... -arrested/

Montana wrote:Grizzly - a poster earlier in the thread says each export license costs $250. That is not correct. Especially as end users don't usually qualify as ITAR exporters, one has to be an FFL or a Manufacturer or otherwise registered as ITAR controlled.

It's not something someone at home can do as a DSP-5 is only issued to people who are registered under ITAR and they have FFLs (for the most part) or are registered an manufacturing ITAR controlled items and other such things. I guess its technically possible you could get a one off approval but I've never heard of it. As an example you must have paid the $2250 ITAR registration fee, plus they need your DUNS and CAGE to quickly process the license. CAGE is optional I think, DUNS is mandatory.
So even for a one time export, your paperwork fees are $3K.

In a post later there was also some confusion over DPS83, that is simply a form that goes alongside an application, it is not the export license or the export license application. The DSP-5 is the export license. The application for a DSP-5 requires the following:
Application itself which is done on a Government controlled IBM online form
DSP-83 (explanation of what you intend to export)
Contract (seller and buyer contract agreeing to sell/buy)
Certification Letter (US Citizen letter saying you are authorized to export)
Explanation of use (what is the end user going to do with the items, if the answer is build a technical truck and shoot kafirs then likely to be denied ;-)
Import License (if applicable)
Letter of Intent (signed by the end user)
Order of goods (the actual purchase order for everything on the export license)
Freight Forwarder information (99% of people use forwarders as it's illegal to ship via USPS and Fedex generally deny transport, so things are mostly moved via forwarders at key airports)
And any supplementary evidence such as prior approvals etc.
The above constitutes a valid application that is likely to be approved.

As someone else pointed out, specific details are needed. In the old days (1 year ago ish) they would approve 'AR-15 Receiver'. That is no longer the case and they want specific make/model etc before approving.

This is actually a good thing for people like me because I have legal exclusivity on a couple of products which customs have copies of, so if someone tries to export an item only I'm allowed to export, their shipment gets held and denied.

The US side of it, because of ITAR, is very time consuming and paperwork heavy.

In previous posts people have made it seem easy, it might be if you are one of the many people who use exporting FFLs who do this business (as you may have guessed I am one of those) but in reality the paperwork burden is huge and hard to do for a single sender and end user type arrangement and unless its high value, not financially viable.

The large FFL exporters do it because of servicing multiple customers therefore costs are spread.

The point I am making is from an end users point of view, one a one time item, its a near insurmountable task and very expensive.

That does not stop people buying things in the USA and filling a suitcase etc. The issue there of course is the US Customs and the US Defense directorate take a dim view of such things and have issued warrants for people caught doing it, like Guy Savage mentioned above.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011 ... -arrested/

I appreciate the info but you're coming at it from an exporter/FFL point of view. I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone other than a US Citizen can apply for an export licence to the US Government or that anyone other than a US FFL/exporter would be in the best position to do that. Or that anyone is underestimating the box ticking and paperwork that needs to be done behind the scenes by the FFL/exporter.

But as an end user in the UK who is wanting to import ITAR controlled items from the USA, which I assume the OP was referring to, it is relatively easy to arrange. I've done it myself with barrels, lower receivers, upper receivers, triggers, stocks, bcg's and complete rifles.

The FFL/exporter no doubt has to do all the running around and consideration that you mention above. But I'm oblivious to all of that because I pay a very modest fee for his service. I was also charged $250 for the "cost of the licence".

As an end user in the UK that is wanting to import ITAR controlled items all you need is:

1. An FFL/Exporter
2. A completed DSP 83, Purchase Order and letter from DTI
3. Domestic authority to possess (FAC)

That's it and the wait for me was no more than 30 days.