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Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:57 pm
by Sim G
joe wrote:
I take it those were PPK clones made by some other brand ? As Walter only made true PPKs in 380 or 32 ???
Pre-war PPs and PPKs were made in .22lr, .32ACP and .380ACP. For around a year only, both also made in .25ACP.
Post war, both at Ulm Do and Manurin, both were made in .22lr, .32ACP and .380. The first PPK/S's were only available in .32 and .380.
Currently, no PP is produced and the PPK is only available in .380 as is the PPK/S which is also available in .22lr. Smith and Wesson punts out the Walther made guns now as well.
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:20 pm
by walesdave
The wife is Israeli - she served in a combat unit in the late 80's / early 90's. Back then girls were attached to fighting units in support roles, nowadays there are some fully integrated combat units, but not too many...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracal_Battalion . My 3 girls are all dual-citizens and my eldest (nearly 14 y.o.) has very recently declared she's going to serve her conscription when she turns 18; part of this is her refusal to allow terrorism to defeat the state.
One thing Israel always has had going for it is it's people, here's a link to some of the attempts, non-firearm licensed citizens, made to counter the recent stabbings....
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/194222/ ... n-violence.
The media appears to be having a hard time spinning the latest round of anti-Jewish terrorism. It's quite hard to dispute the facts that many times a day, terrorists are approaching civilians, police and soldiers and attempting to stab them.
I have zero time for the UN politicians who declare the Israeli response to a stabbing attack is 'heavy handed' - you try to stab someone, you get shot.....there are several videos where the security forces have tried to talk down a terrorist only for them to be rushed again, and being forced to open fire.
FYI: as far as carrying a weapon in Israel - it's a MASSIVE "no no" unless you have a firearms license. Carry a knife, go to jail; peeper spray is ok, but has sold out across the country in the last couple of weeks. Getting a firearms license is very hard unless you are a ranking reserve officer, live in the West bank, are a security guard etc. and when licensed you are restricted to one handgun and 50 rounds of ammunition. I used to live there when the 'good reason' part of the application was just 'I want one' but that changed in the mid-90's and I believe got further tightened about 10 years ago.
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:24 pm
by Sim G
ordnance wrote:Not sure this is all i can find out.
.22 PPs, some .32 PPs and PPKs were issued to the Northern Ireland Prison Service, RUC Reserve and part-time UDR as PPWs. Some S&W .38s were in evidence also. There was also the facility for a grant where you could purchase your own but it had to be a maximum of .38spl/9mm. UDR, later Royal Irish, could also be issued with a Browning. The late 80s early 90s saw the vast majority of the mish-mash of the issued PPWs replaced with a single model, the Walther P5 Compact.
Full and part time RUC carried their duty weapon, the Ruger Speed Six or S&W59 for some, then Glock 19. PSNI the G19. Some home service RIR got hold of Sig 228/9s as well!
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:39 pm
by Chuck
I have zero time for the UN politicians who declare the Israeli response to a stabbing attack is 'heavy handed' - you try to stab someone, you get shot.....there are several videos where the security forces have tried to talk down a terrorist only for them to be rushed again, and being forced to open fire.
Well on Al Jazerrah it's disproportionate response to shoot someone trying to stab and kill you - no surprise there eh! Just waiting for CNN and BBC to spoiut the same crud.
BTW: just WHY is a terrorist flag (Palestinian) flying over the UN?
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:37 pm
by snayperskaya
breacher wrote:Chuck wrote:Breacher:
Apparently it is very hard to get a gun permit in Israel. Never mind training as a civilian.
Seems the rules are being relaxed and those already with a gun are being encouaged to carry it
.
Sixshsot, calibre is not so important as shot placement. Make enough holes - even with a .22 - and you'll get a result. A lot depends on the MOTIVATION of the aggressor too.
A .22 will do the business - just look at how many stone throwers the Israelis are stopping with it.
Most suicide bombers / stabbers are tanked up on medication so .22 might not work so well.
Rioters and stone throwers get a .22lr from the IDF Rugers, the suicide bombers/stabbers get a few 5.56 from Ruger guys mates with the Tavor's and Galil's
That said if a stabbers coming at you a .22lr handgun with a full mag is a better option than we have here
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 pm
by Chuck
Snayperskaya,
That said if a stabbers coming at you a .22lr handgun with a full mag is a better option than we have here
Do we have any options other than legging it
or calling on Sim G / DM and their mates? Either way, non of us can move at 950FPS!!!
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:36 pm
by snayperskaya
Chuck wrote:Snayperskaya,
That said if a stabbers coming at you a .22lr handgun with a full mag is a better option than we have here
Do we have any options other than legging it
or calling on Sim G / DM and their mates? Either way, non of us can move at 950FPS!!!
Other than politely asking the stabber to desist or whacking him a bit with a suitably sized lump of wood then no not really......by the time the boys in blue arrive you're either seriously injured, dead or nicked for "tickling" said stabber with a suitably sized lump of wood......
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:43 am
by joe
snayperskaya wrote:Chuck wrote:Snayperskaya,
That said if a stabbers coming at you a .22lr handgun with a full mag is a better option than we have here
Do we have any options other than legging it
or calling on Sim G / DM and their mates? Either way, non of us can move at 950FPS!!!
Other than politely asking the stabber to desist or whacking him a bit with a suitably sized lump of wood then no not really......by the time the boys in blue arrive you're either seriously injured, dead or nicked for "tickling" said stabber with a suitably sized lump of wood......
Then having to explain to your FEO why were you arrested for vilolence !
Then having to await the outcome if they will pull your ticket for daring to stop yourself getting killed !
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:49 am
by joe
walesdave wrote:The wife is Israeli - she served in a combat unit in the late 80's / early 90's. Back then girls were attached to fighting units in support roles, nowadays there are some fully integrated combat units, but not too many...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracal_Battalion . My 3 girls are all dual-citizens and my eldest (nearly 14 y.o.) has very recently declared she's going to serve her conscription when she turns 18; part of this is her refusal to allow terrorism to defeat the state.
One thing Israel always has had going for it is it's people, here's a link to some of the attempts, non-firearm licensed citizens, made to counter the recent stabbings....
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/194222/ ... n-violence.
The media appears to be having a hard time spinning the latest round of anti-Jewish terrorism. It's quite hard to dispute the facts that many times a day, terrorists are approaching civilians, police and soldiers and attempting to stab them.
I have zero time for the UN politicians who declare the Israeli response to a stabbing attack is 'heavy handed' - you try to stab someone, you get shot.....there are several videos where the security forces have tried to talk down a terrorist only for them to be rushed again, and being forced to open fire.
FYI: as far as carrying a weapon in Israel - it's a MASSIVE "no no" unless you have a firearms license. Carry a knife, go to jail; peeper spray is ok, but has sold out across the country in the last couple of weeks. Getting a firearms license is very hard unless you are a ranking reserve officer, live in the West bank, are a security guard etc. and when licensed you are restricted to one handgun and 50 rounds of ammunition. I used to live there when the 'good reason' part of the application was just 'I want one' but that changed in the mid-90's and I believe got further tightened about 10 years ago.
Why ! ? Seriously? Why! Why put bullshit restrictions on your people when they are under attack for no reason other then either you are a 1) a twisted liberal 2) you hate your own people
With an application for a gun permit in Israel I'm sure the authorities can find out if the applicant is a genuine jew and not some undercover muslim, thus this law does nothing for the security of Israel except leave the Jews totally at the mercy of the enemy
Re: Israel: Giving its people a chance.
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:53 am
by joe
Chuck wrote:Snayperskaya,
That said if a stabbers coming at you a .22lr handgun with a full mag is a better option than we have here
Do we have any options other than legging it
or calling on Sim G / DM and their mates? Either way, non of us can move at 950FPS!!!
Despite the ".22 will just p*** your attacker off" there hasn't been a case of that yet . In fact it's the opposite ! Loads of cases where attackers with guns / knives have been shot and killed with .22lr pistol that the victim was carrying