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Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:05 am
by Alberto
breacher wrote:Money is not the only thing with value.
Where have you been for the last forty years breacher?
Sent from my boing using "An application"
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:36 am
by snayperskaya
breacher wrote:snayperskaya wrote:breacher wrote:Its your rifle. Enjoy it any way you want. To many people trying to tell others how to live their lives.
As long as its a repro rather than a counterfeit..........
Happy shooting !
I agree that ultimately people can, and will, do what they want with their own rifle and if someone wants to scope an old rifle then obviously that's their choice but I believe the OP has purchased a rather sought after Hungarian M91/30 Mosin and is contemplating fitting a reproduction scope to it to create a reproduction sniper.......Hungarian Mosin's of any favour are quite rare compared to those of other nations and nice clean examples (as I believe his is) will only increase in value but that value will decrease considerably if the receiver is permanently drilled in order to fit a scope mount.Mosin prices are climbing as stocks are drying up, especially with the sanctions against Russia that don't appear to be dropped anytime soon and nice original examples are becoming increasingly hard to find.
As I said it is obviously up to the individual as to what they do with their rifle and I don't think it is a case of trying to tell people how to live their lives, some people may not realise that the rifle they have is particularly rare or uncommon and best off being left in its original configuration.
Money is not the only thing with value.
Say the rifle doubles in value in the owners lifetime ? Or even triples. Or even quadruples !
He will leave a few hundred or a couple of thousand more in his estate.
Me, I would value 10 or 20 years of shooting at far more than that !
And if these original matching number rifles were so sought after, they would be snapped up by purists and would cost so much, nobody would even think of altering them. But they are not. Some are so cheap they end up next to the scrap in the deac market !
I'm not saying don't shoot it!, just appreciate for what it is......
Many people don't realise how uncommon some Mosin variants are, even dealers often see them as "just an old Mosin" unlike some Enfields and Mausers.The dealer I bought my PU sniper off didn't have a clue about what it was other than "it's a Mosin with a scope fitted" and despite it being rather uncommon these days it will not be a safe Queen!.
I once saw a 1936 Simonov Trials Mosin that had been completely buthered by having a scope and bipod fitted!, only around 30,000 (sounds a lot but it isn't) were produced and are very sought after today and clearly a case of someone not realising what they had.
https://scwmosin.weebly.com/1936-simono ... l-war.html
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:53 am
by dromia
When a firearm is longer made, then over the years it will inevitably become rare. Obviously the less that were made at the time the sooner they become rare. It is vagaries of what happens to that finite number of firearms over time, to which altering irrevocably is one, (market availability is also a rarity factor) that changes their status from common to rare.
Whether you choose to do so to your firearm is down to your conscience, what historical value you hold to such guns and if keeping original guns intact for future generations to appreciate is of no importance to you.
As has been said it is currently your gun to do with as you wish, if you do choose to irrevocably alter it all that will happen is that you will diminish the finite pool of originals and drive up the value of those left at the same time diminishing the value of your purchase, reducing the number of originals available to those who value such things both now and for the future.
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:58 am
by Maggot
breacher wrote:Or if you want to scope a ww2 era rifle but not make a repro ww2 sniper............
I wanted to enter NRA matches with a "pre 1955" criteria.
I have put a 1950s Pecar on a 1950s k98 ( in 30.06 so could never enter a match for ww2 rifles anyway )
So, I get to enjoy the rifle in the way I want without trying to pretend my rifle is anything more than a 1950s rifle with a 1950s scope !
yea....Alone
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:33 pm
by breacher
Joe at Gunshop in Barnet had a great response to the "purists".
Whenever one stuck his nose in when another customer asked about such a modification......
He would say "Ok - you want it preserved - I will sell it to you then."
They usually had no slot or no cash or some other excuse.
Joe then gave them short shrift !!!
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:36 pm
by breacher
Maggot wrote:breacher wrote:Or if you want to scope a ww2 era rifle but not make a repro ww2 sniper............
I wanted to enter NRA matches with a "pre 1955" criteria.
I have put a 1950s Pecar on a 1950s k98 ( in 30.06 so could never enter a match for ww2 rifles anyway )
So, I get to enjoy the rifle in the way I want without trying to pretend my rifle is anything more than a 1950s rifle with a 1950s scope !
yea....Alone
How would you know ?
In the years I have been attending the Action Weekends, Phoenix and GR Nationals, I have never seen you enter ANY event, pre 55 rifle or otherwise !
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:04 pm
by snayperskaya
breacher wrote:Joe at Gunshop in Barnet had a great response to the "purists".
Whenever one stuck his nose in when another customer asked about such a modification......
He would say "Ok - you want it preserved - I will sell it to you then."
They usually had no slot or no cash or some other excuse.
Joe then gave them short shrift !!!
It's not necessarily a case of being a purist because if someone wants to permanently alter a relatively common rifle, and there are plenty of cheap run of the mill 91/30 Mosin's etc out there, buy a beater and crack on and each to their own, but surely the rare and uncommon variants of any make are worth preserving as they are?.
Would you take an issued, WW1-dated SMLE and fit a cheap repro scope and mount to it or leave it as is and enjoy shooting a classic Lee-Enfield as it was intended?.
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:38 pm
by froggy
Whenever one stuck his nose in when another customer asked about such a modification......
He would say "Ok - you want it preserved - I will sell it to you then." They usually had no slot or no cash or some other excuse. Joe then gave them short shrift !!!
Whether it is gun, militaria, fine art etc... An original piece is collectable and the originality of the piece dictates its value. Not much more can be said ... Obviously your dude is a "merchant" and has a business to run, nothing wrong with that, and he has different priorities from a shooter who like interesting guns.
If one wants a German "sniper" K98, slapping a scope on will never give him one . It will remain an original rifle that that been "played with" , nothing more.
If one wants a "scoped K98", by all means, do scope a K98 & enjoy it.
Life is bit to short for asking too many Metaphilosophycal questions
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:12 pm
by breacher
I think his point was that too many of those wanting old rifles preserved did not possess one and had no intention of buying one. But liked to pontificate on the subject !
Re: Reproduction Sniper rifles Yes or No
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:32 pm
by breacher
It occurs to me that there were no purpose built sniper rifles during ww1 and ww2. Only service rifles with a scope added.
So, if one uses a mount and scope in the spirit of the original, one is no more "ruining" a rifle than those who modified the originals.
Each to their own I guess - do whatever makes you happy !