Marking.......

[Airbrush]

My last dozen or so visits to Bisley have all been with electric targets and had very few problems at all, both on Century and Stickledown. Previously, more often than not, the marking was abysmal, very slow, message 4 every other shot, unable to reach to patch the target etc.

Yes, of course the electric targets need to be maintained but I would choose them any day.

Trouble is how do you know you’re getting an accurate reading? I’ve Zero’d a Rifle on them before a comp only to find out it was out by 2 moa.

Lesson learnt.

[artiglio]

There is apparently a fewproblem with the electronics,

On century, the centres get shot out relatively quickly ( or, maintenance is insufficient, take your pick) and the system struggles.

Stickledown, it seems there are quite a few shooters using ammo which is unable to penetrate the target construction ( would be fine on a standard target) the bullet joins others in the target affecting its ability to reliably record the shot.

The nra have purchased a couple of Adam McDonalds “shotmarker” targets for trials. Though these need the bullet to arrive at the target still over mach1, so slow ammo will still not register but at least will pass through the target and not affect performance on subsequent shots.

Pretty much between a rock and a hard place, will electronics work properly/ will your marker be more interested in their phone than the target. ( i’ve clearly seen my shot go in the v, only to be marked as a 4

On bright side the electronics on butt 19 have for me been very good.

[mag41uk]

I probably get to use the electronic targets more than most folk.
I cant say I have ever had a problem with them.
Once the internal battery hadn't been charged overnight so wouldn't boot up.
They will after about 20 minutes after getting charged from the external battery.
The only other instance of non connection was due to too many shooters masking the aerial mast using their phones with bluetooth enabled.
They were herded away and asked to switch of bluetooth and normal service resumed.
I got to talk with some of the guys from range services who showed me a box of spent bullets.
They had been plucked out the target screens or recovered from the cavity between the screens.
I suspect any "problems" are ammo related past 900 on stix.

[rox]

I cant say I have ever had a problem with them.

Have you done anything to validate accuracy, or are you working on trust?

[Racalman]

My club uses markers for snap shooting at 1,000 yards (hard to do that with electronic targets ).

My biggest complaint about the Intarso targets is that you can't get a printout and have to take a screenshot with your phone. When they were being evaluated the rep told me that you could save your results to their web site and download them later. Still waiting for that ...

[GeeRam]

I suspect any "problems" are ammo related past 900 on stix.

Hmmm...........

Maybe that explains mine and a few of my other club members problems on 900 at Stix with the leccy targets this year and last year, compared to previous years with human markers.
Used to be able to score high 20's with my old 4T sniper rifle at 900 with human markers, but have never registered a single hit with the leccy targets with the same PPU 303 ammo in similar weather conditions.
I've given up taking part in our 900 yard club shoots, as have a couple of others that can't register a hit with old rifles since the switch to leccy. The guys using 7.62x51 are OK, but the two of us 303 guys and one with a 6.5x55 Swedish guy are not.

[rox]

I suspect any "problems" are ammo related past 900 on stix.

In the last 3 instances I'm aware of where Stix electronics had to be abandonned at 900 and 1000 the shooters were all able to continue on a different target, albeit having wasted a lot of ammo and time. Ammo was definitely not the cause in these cases. I find it hard to imagine that a round with so little energy that it can't penetrate a thin rubber sheet could reliably hit a target at 1000 yards regardless of whether or not the target has a human marker. Given that a closed system was chosen specifically so it doesn't require the projectile to arrive at supersonic velocity, what ammo problems could affect these targets that don't affect manual targets?

[DanTheMan]

I suspect any "problems" are ammo related past 900 on stix.

In the last 3 instances I'm aware of where Stix electronics had to be abandonned at 900 and 1000 the shooters were all able to continue on a different target, albeit having wasted a lot of ammo and time. Ammo was definitely not the cause in these cases. I find it hard to imagine that a round with so little energy that it can't penetrate a thin rubber sheet could reliably hit a target at 1000 yards regardless of whether or not the target has a human marker. Given that a closed system was chosen specifically so it doesn't require the projectile to arrive at supersonic velocity, what ammo problems could affect these targets that don't affect manual targets?

They use acoustic sensors, says on the NRA page that projectiles need to be supersonic:

https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges/st ... c-targets/

[rox]

They use acoustic sensors, says on the NRA page that projectiles need to be supersonic:

https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges/st ... c-targets/

That page says the following:

"Target 50 is fitted with a shot detection system and in the unlikely case of a miss will identify the fall of shot (please note the shot detection system will not detect sub sonic projectiles)".

This only applies to the 'miss detection system' on target 50 and is an additional function to the normal positioning detection within the target area (and I'm not sure this function has ever worked).

Enclosed systems with a rubber membrane detect the round passing through the rubber membrane, and therefore the shot does not need to be supersonic. Open systems, like Silver Mountain and Shot Marker, detect the supersonic crack and require the round to be supersonic. One of the reasons an enclosed system was chosen over the 'open' Silver Mountain option that was trialled, was because Silver Mountain wouldn't work with subsonic rounds, whereas the enclosed systems would. This was apparent during accuracy trials where the open system failed to detect rounds fired from 1100 yards while the closed systems did detect them.

[artiglio]

I suspect any "problems" are ammo related past 900 on stix.

In the last 3 instances I'm aware of where Stix electronics had to be abandonned at 900 and 1000 the shooters were all able to continue on a different target, albeit having wasted a lot of ammo and time. Ammo was definitely not the cause in these cases. I find it hard to imagine that a round with so little energy that it can't penetrate a thin rubber sheet could reliably hit a target at 1000 yards regardless of whether or not the target has a human marker. Given that a closed system was chosen specifically so it doesn't require the projectile to arrive at supersonic velocity, what ammo problems could affect these targets that don't affect manual targets?

Morning Rox

I can only pass on the info i got from various people at the nra, apparently there are not inconsiderable numbers of bullets with insufficient energy to penetrate the target structure on stix, these are building up within the target make up and its suggested this is creating problems with the target accurately recording some of the subsequent shots.
From my experience the targets on stickledown can also give very optimistic results, i did some load testing and the target ( 1000 yds) reported that i’d shot four consecutive 5 shot groups each of which was under 4” , 2 were under 2”. Much as i’d like to think i’d managed that, it really is very unlikely.
If the problem is one of rounds arriving at the target with insufficent energy, that’s all very well for those that fired them , but if its rendering the system innacurate for subsequent shooters they become pointless.
The nra have taken to sending someone down with one of the nra , accuracy internationals and putting a few rounds down to verify the target works, but in the absence of verification of fall of shot at the target all it says is that the target has had a shot go through it , nothing as to accuracy.

On century, a shooter went down to the butts to watch the fall of shot ,the target was in a dreadful state and was incapable of recording shots accurately, they gave up on their shoot, it being a waste of ammo.

Personally i’d lean toward the open system, and it be down to me to make sure my bullet arrives fast enough to be recorded.