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Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:25 pm
by poll007
Airbrush wrote:38Super wrote:Airbrush wrote:
I agree, any innovation in firearm cycling/rate of fire is doomed now. The SGC would eventually be banned because it is box fed unlike traditional tube fed lever actions.
I'd respectfully like to disagree with you on this.
I didn't follow the LR case that carefully as to the real reasons behind the ban but a high rate of fire was definitely mentioned. As we know a skilled shooter with a Lee Enfield and stripper clips or a straight pull AR can put out high sustained rates of fire and Cowboy Action shooters can empty a lever action in an amazingly short space of time. To my knowledge there has been nothing like the same reaction to these (or was there?).
Would a lever action version of an M1 carbine for example be viewed the same as a lever 'release' version? The possible ROF of either would be almost identical.
Is it more about looks or that 'normal' lever action is really only suitable for pistol calibre cartridges? If you put a lever action M1 carbine in front of a journalist would they relax and call it a "Winchester" or get all excited and call it an "AR15" because it's an assault rifle?
The lever release mechanism was frowned upon by the police from it's inception as treading too close to the 'self loading' line and the double trigger pull version was a step too far. I don't believe that doesn't mean that we don't have room to innovate using the existing mechanisms that everyone is happy with.
I think after the latest ban you're being naive, respectfully.
Regardless of the above, one of the biggest factors was numbers of shooters and national support.
lever release and mars rifles haven't been all that common, and no national body really stood up in their defence, however .50 cal and other "high energy" rifles that were in the same proposal didnt get banned, the main reason being that a lot more people wrote in to support removing them from the OWB as well as multiple bodies.
They will really struggle to ban lever actions at this point, though they could always try go down a route of a detachable magazine ban or magazine limit.
though the next thing on the chopping block seems to be the .50 cal still which was supposed to be reviewed to try and reintroduce the ban.
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:07 pm
by GeeRam
Airbrush wrote:
I agree, any innovation in firearm cycling/rate of fire is doomed now. The SGC would eventually be banned because it is box fed unlike traditional tube fed lever actions.
I agree with that too.
And they could easily ignore the easy route detachable box mag ban option, and go all out and just ban lever action entirely, and then even more people in the sport are thrown to the wolves just because some people keep trying to circumvent the rules to up the cycle rate of something, that to joe-public (and the anti-media) will always be associated with something Terry the Terrorist wants to carry or has been used as the default choice in a mass shooting in the USA.
People need to remember logic & reason are absent when it come to the people that dictate UK firearms laws....or drive them.
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:39 pm
by Sim G
It is my understanding that the lever release SGC was an unfortunate casualty in the requirement to take the Mars system out of circulation. This was I believe based on a risk assessment on that presented by potential MTFA.
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:43 pm
by Airbrush
Sim G wrote:It is my understanding that the lever release SGC was an unfortunate casualty in the requirement to take the Mars system out of circulation. This was I believe based on a risk assessment on that presented by potential MTFA.
MFTA? We're not all Plod.
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:56 pm
by GeeRam
Sim G wrote:It is my understanding that the lever release SGC was an unfortunate casualty in the requirement to take the Mars system out of circulation. This was I believe based on a risk assessment on that presented by potential MTFA.
Which was kind of the point I was making about ALL lever actions could get swept up and banned if someone after seeing an 'AR style' gun being levered and reloaded at a high cyclic rate on yooftube and then started a campaign.....and off we go again.
We should be trying to protect and keep what we've still got left rather than risking loosing even more for no sensible reason.
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 4:12 pm
by glevum
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 4:15 pm
by Airbrush
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Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 4:33 pm
by mag41uk
How I hanker for a Marlin model 62 in 30 carbine.
Missed one a few years ago.
But not with the 4 round mags it came with!
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:22 am
by MistAgain
GeeRam wrote:Sim G wrote:It is my understanding that the lever release SGC was an unfortunate casualty in the requirement to take the Mars system out of circulation. This was I believe based on a risk assessment on that presented by potential MTFA.
" just because some people keep trying to circumvent the rules to up the cycle rate of something,"
Which was kind of the point I was making about ALL lever actions could get swept up and banned if someone after seeing an 'AR style' gun being levered and reloaded at a high cyclic rate on yooftube and then started a campaign.....and off we go again.
We should be trying to protect and keep what we've still got left rather than risking loosing even more for no sensible reason.
And this is why we keep having more restrictsions imposed on us .
Too many of the shooting community are willing to see other types of the sport and other types of firearms banned so they can keep what they have .
How many times have we seen , even on these boards , shooters saying that a certain type of firearms takes advantage of a loophole .
There are no loopholes , a firearm is either legal or not .
We need to start fighting back . We need an association prepared to fight for all types of shooting sport . We need an overwhelming number of shooters to
lean on the existing organisations and get them to fight together , or we need a new organisation that will fight for all shooters .
Just about every shooting organisation has sold out some form of shooting over the years and it should be stopped .
We should not be waiting for another piece of pointless legislation before they react on our behalf , or one day there will be no shooting sports in this country .
Re: What do people use Pistol calibres for in UK (9mm,.45 et
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:34 pm
by snayperskaya
MistAgain, very well said....