The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

artiglio wrote:In addition in the second reading there was reference to attempts to smuggle high muzzle energy firearms into the country. I’ve done my best to google such stories but the smuggling attempts i can find are confined to pistols and Ak style firearms.
There seems to be no evidence or reasoned link between smuggling attempts and ME of 13600 joules, has anyone seen anything, just putting together another letter to my mp in respect of comments made in the second reading.

They could well be adding in the heavy stuff that was getting into the hands of the IRA in the 1990's.

In the 1990s, the Provisional IRA South Armagh Brigade smuggled in a number of Barrett M82 and Barrett M90 .50 BMG rifles from the United States.[37][38] These weapons were used by two South Armagh sniper teams to conduct a sniping campaign against British Army patrols operating in the area. The last British soldier killed in Northern Ireland during The Troubles, Stephen Restorick, was shot dead with a Barrett rifle in 1997. Soon after, the leader of one of the Armagh sniper squads, Michael Caraher, was arrested and a Barrett rifle recovered.

Late 1980s and early 1990s: The IRA manage to obtain half a dozen Barrett rifles and other .50 cal Sniper Rifles, all destined for the South Armagh Sniper teams.[44]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provision ... mportation

Criminals are still smuggling guns of all sorts into the U.K from the U.S.

It has nothing to do with firearms held legally by FAC holders and that's a point which needs to be constantly made.

JSC wrote:Criminals are still smuggling guns of all sorts into the U.K from the U.S.

It has nothing to do with firearms held legally by FAC holders and that's a point which needs to be constantly made.

I am saying this over and over again.

We as a group need to stop trying to justify certain types of firearm. We need to start talking about the fact we as a group are predominantly LAW ABIDING so the kind of firearms we possess are not an issue........as we dont abuse them.

Trying to reason with someone who knows nothing about the technicalities of firearms ( a gun is a gun to them ) is pointless as they just wont understand.

However the CAN be made to understand that we are law abiding citizens.

Back when the handgun ban was starting its progress through Parliament , when the GTA and other bodies turned their collective backs on us , MPC were the only people prepared to help ( for a price )

They hired a lobbying firm for advice and to get out points across to MP's .

One of their suggestions was that they should not make a big issue about how law abiding we were as the Government could easily select a member of the shooting community who was not sqeaky clean and leak any details to the anti gun press .

I would suggest that the same still applies today .

https://nra.org.uk/owners-mars-lever-release-rifles/

If you bought a MARS / LR rifle for its relative ease of operation, driven by a health issue, please let me know at my work email within the link ...

breacher wrote:

JSC wrote:Criminals are still smuggling guns of all sorts into the U.K from the U.S.

It has nothing to do with firearms held legally by FAC holders and that's a point which needs to be constantly made.

I am saying this over and over again.

We as a group need to stop trying to justify certain types of firearm. We need to start talking about the fact we as a group are predominantly LAW ABIDING so the kind of firearms we possess are not an issue........as we dont abuse them.

Trying to reason with someone who knows nothing about the technicalities of firearms ( a gun is a gun to them ) is pointless as they just wont understand.

However the CAN be made to understand that we are law abiding citizens.

Yep thats the trouble with UK shooters they dont support disiplines that they dont shoot . When will people understand its the ongoing erradication of legally owned firearms we are (should) be fighting against .

Dellboy wrote:

breacher wrote:

JSC wrote:Criminals are still smuggling guns of all sorts into the U.K from the U.S.

It has nothing to do with firearms held legally by FAC holders and that's a point which needs to be constantly made.

I am saying this over and over again.

We as a group need to stop trying to justify certain types of firearm. We need to start talking about the fact we as a group are predominantly LAW ABIDING so the kind of firearms we possess are not an issue........as we dont abuse them.

Trying to reason with someone who knows nothing about the technicalities of firearms ( a gun is a gun to them ) is pointless as they just wont understand.

However the CAN be made to understand that we are law abiding citizens.

Yep thats the trouble with UK shooters they dont support disiplines that they dont shoot . When will people understand its the ongoing erradication of legally owned firearms we are (should) be fighting against .

The pistol ban mentality all over again. Currently it is the 'I don't have a .50 cal/MARS rifle, so it doesn't affect me' mentality.

Firearms ownership in this country will be lost by death by a thousand cuts, and it is happening right now.

The statistics attached to the consultation show that only around 6% of firearms certificate holders responded to the consultation, which is pathetic.

Once the 10,000 ft/lb limit is in place, it is the work of a moment to then reduce that to 8,000 ft/lb, or 5,000, or whatever.

Only two things possibly stop a complete ban on firearms right now - firstly, it probably would be ballot box suicide for any government that introduced a total ban, just due to the number of firearms certificate holders involved; and secondly the total compensation bill would not be something the government would want to stomach right now, and I suspect the size of that would not particularly garner public sympathy either.

Is the current government anti firearms? I think it is probably so-so on it, but I do believe the current incumbents at the Home Office are particularly anti firearms, and I suspect the NPCC probably are, certainly outside anything that is minuted at the FELWG meetings.

More than ever we need a national firearms organisation that will fight all firearms matters on our behalf, and we are no closer to having it - although I will give the NRA credit for the fact they no longer have the 'If it isn't rifle related and Bisley centric we aren't interested' attitude they did with the pistol ban.

I think the disability angle is good for people to bring up, BUT, what is your reason if you are able bodied? I have a lever release, and I am not using it for any disability reason, I am using it simply because it is a firearm I chose. so the whole, helps disabled shooters doesn't give me any sort of defense, apart from in a equality sense, if they can use one, why can't I?

we need more than this reason, we need to show it is not significantly faster than other rifles. and show that especially in 9mm/45acp lever release cases, that it is a relatively low power round.
as for full bore lever release and MARS, they do not offer a significant advantage either. someone can run a lee enfield at a faster rate, and that is a much more powerful round. not that I think that is a wise argument to make of course.

Someone has been mentioning that these skirt the spirit of the law, so what? the law is absolute, it either breaks it or it doesn't. the laws define what we can and can't do, someone devised a way to allow these rifles to be legal, so they are legal, spirit or not, furthermore, no where in the documents I have seen does it mention this in any of the proposals, so how can that be part of their reasoning? they are going after the speed, nothing more, so that is all we need to refute.
we have rules to define what we can and can't do, we then innovate to have things that comply to that law.

why should a rifle that is not semi auto be banned? is the question we need to be asking. not justifying uses for it. we aren't justifying uses for any other type of action, why is this one any different?

Has anyone spoken to Bob at SGC and asked how many Lever-release rifles have been sold in the UK?

I have one in 9mm and know 6 other owners within my clubs.

You speak a lot of sense Dorset_Shooter: I want things to change, I genuinely believe fullbore forum could start a group that is funded by members to promote our sport, regardless of caliber etc.

Dorset_shooter wrote:

Airbrush wrote:Thanks Dorset Shooter for your positive & constructive views.

This is the problem with the shooting community, too quick to jump to shut people
Down, I have thought long and hard for ways to defend my sport, I marched and sent letters during the hunting ban. I know vast numbers of people who did the same.

I want things to change, I genuinely believe fullbore forum could start a group that is funded by members to promote our sport, regardless of caliber etc. What doesn't help our cause is various people erratically coming up with half harted arguments with little to no merit.

I will not roll over, I will not give up without a fight, but we need to look at the bigger picture. We need to start defending before it goes to debate.

Our sport provides so many positives people need to focus on, but without promoting it will never get anywhere.

People need to see past guns, see the conservation of countryside , see the employment, see the trade , international competitions etc etc etc

I want a broader shooting community, not people just fighting for .50 cal etc