The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

christel wrote:Porcupine, your image is not showing?

This one better?

Lovely!

I am guessing it is a torch on top?

Sim G wrote:But, you have to remember that evn in the UK, there are far more good people than bad, and far more people are responsible than there are those who are not.

I'm not worried if someone is 'good' and 'responsible' - I'm more concerned about if they are competant and have common sense...

I'm not sure of the accuracy - but here are some statistics from the US:



Yearly Statistics

As each year passes on, a minimum of around 35,000 people die from gun injuries in the Untited States. But those are just the deaths, a little over three times as many people are injured and hospitalized from guns. When you narrow this down to a specific group, of the 35,000 deaths, 85% of those deaths were white males between the age groups of 10 to 34 years old. The most common age in that age group was 19 years old. For the estimated (3 times as much as 35,000deaths) 105,000 gun injuries in a year, 56% of those injuries occur in a home and are reported to be accidental injuries. But of those 105,000 injuries and 56% that occur in homes, 34% of those injuries are with victims 17 years old and younger.

Self Inflicted Injuries

When you take the amount of injuries and deaths that occur in homes around the Untited States, half of those injuries are self-inflicted. In that category of self-inflicted, it includes suicide as well. When a parent or just a person who lives in a home owns a gun, the increase in the possiblity of suicide for that owner or whoever lives with them goes up by 25%. While that increase in possiblity goes up, the chance of self inflicted or any home gun injury goes up by 32%. A child is more likely, in these cases, to be the victim of suicide or accidental injury than an adult if the adult leaves the gun exposed to the child.


Btw: I don't enjoy taking this side of the argument.

christel wrote:http://www.yothinfirearms.com/Handguns/ ... olver.html

I do like this.
I was searching for wild west women revolvers but found this instead :)

To balance my 'negative' comments on this subject - I have to say that these are super-cool ...and would love to have one in my survival kit...

The most recent year for which we have comprehensive data is 2007. That year, in a country of a little over 300,000 people with around 126,000 gun owners, there were 613 accidental gun deaths, 276 gun deaths for which the cause was not determined, 12,983 gun homicides (both lawful and unlawful e.g. line-of-duty, self-defense etc), and 17,352 gun suicides for a total of 31,224. Of the unintentional deaths, 65 were of children aged 14 or younger (note that interestingly 19 of these were African-American despite this group constituting only 12% of the population and owning guns at a rate about one third that of other ethnicities - African Americans also make up 26% of total gun deaths and 54% of gun homicides).

There were also 69,863 non-fatal gun injuries. Of these, 49,874 were violence-related (again, this includes both lawful and unlawful violence) and 4,291 were intentional self-harm. The remaining 15,968 were unintentional. Of these, 802 were of children aged 14 or younger (ethnicity data is not available).

There are no national statistics unfortunately but what would be interesting to know is the context of these accidents. With about 15 million hunters in a country full of dense forests, thick brush and claustrophobic swamps I'd wager most of those are hunting accidents. However it should be noted that accidental gun deaths have been falling dramatically since 1904 from a rate of almost 6 per 100,000 to a rate of 0.2 per 100,000.

Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (a federal agency of the Department for Health and Human Services)

John, where did the figures come from? Reading the US gun press, one particular factor that the antis include is the "19 year old" or what is regarded as a "young person", 15 to 24 years old. This age group does figure with the highest proprtion of gun deaths and injuries, but what is generally ommitted is those deaths and injries to crime and gang culture......... which is populated by what age group, do you think?

Sim G wrote:John, where did the figures come from? Reading the US gun press, one particular factor that the antis include is the "19 year old" or what is regarded as a "young person", 15 to 24 years old. This age group does figure with the highest proprtion of gun deaths and injuries, but what is generally ommitted is those deaths and injries to crime and gang culture......... which is populated by what age group, do you think?

Just pulled them from Google - I think Porcupine's stats are more reliable.

Which ever stats you look at, it's fair to say that if gun ownership is in the 100s of thousands, then you can measure gun related accidents in the 100s.

For a country like the UK, which has a murder rate (from all methods/weapons) of around 600/700 per year, it is possible that if anyone who wanted a gun could have one, that more people could die accidentaly from guns than deliberatly.

My main problem is with a sudden change in law - that there would be many accidents from 'non-gun' people - So, could it be phased in? and if so how would you decide who can carry (legal minefield), and who can not, etc.??

Not sure that I'm believing what I'm reading here??

Would I carry in my Private Life if I could???????? No not very often,,,possibly if I was having to go somewhere where I MIGHT have to draw it,,,and I'd choose a Sig,,,,but do I or any of you really need too???

Other than that I'm afraid Walter Mitty's spring to mind,,,,If that offends sorry, but thats my opinion,,,,I carry or at least have access to live armed, on duty everyday and I can tell you when you have to carry everyday,,,,the novelty soon wears off,,,,why would I THEN want to do it,in my own time/private life??

barney57 wrote:Not sure that I'm believing what I'm reading here??

Would I carry in my Private Life if I could???????? No not very often,,,possibly if I was having to go somewhere where I MIGHT have to draw it,,,and I'd choose a Sig,,,,but do I or any of you really need too???

Other than that I'm afraid Walter Mitty's spring to mind,,,,If that offends sorry, but thats my opinion,,,,I carry or at least have access to live armed, on duty everyday and I can tell you when you have to carry everyday,,,,the novelty soon wears off,,,,why would I THEN want to do it,in my own time/private life??

The NOVELTY, what bloody novelty? It's purely about whether you'd choose to carry a firearm on the basis of improving your and those in your immediate vicinity safety.

Would the need ever arise? Well if we ignore the most recent riots and the police's complete inability to protect those effected (for various reasons), i and many others carried a concealed pistol in the UK for occassionally when sent to NI.

Barney, why so serious?

Given our current gun laws and the abscence of any change on the horizon it is purely hypothetical, a bit of fun.

And I thinly your "Walter mitty"-comment is unfair as you don't know anybody well enough to make that call.