The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Thorney wrote:We start all probationers on a semi auto .22 for a few reasons. Firstly its the most complicated firearm in terms of semi auto, mag fed etc so unloading and clearing is more complex and awkward, training is one on one so its good they get the hang of it so that bolt action is less daunting. Secondly the rounds are cheap so they get more experience in pulling a trigger without a huge bill at the end. Thirdly the fact is a .22 round has less force in the event of an ND than a full bore round both in terms of ricochet and distance.

Once they have done 4 days with a .22 at distances from 10m to 100m we then get them onto full bore but really the choice is theirs in terms of gallery rifle or full bore rifle, we have both but really its where they want to go wit their shooting, we then train them on their chosen calibre and go from there.

Out of interest, if I chose .223 and wanted to shoot at 100m at your club assuming have have done bolt action .22 on the said range, what would you train me to do with this caliber?

We have ten disciplines on the back of our cards, each must be signed off by a member of the committee having had competency demonstrated and gone through the primer course for that discipline.

Everyone can shoot .22 when they start which is covered in probation training and the other stuff comes with time.

Every member must also pass a range officers evening course. Each member must do two days as a range officer per year to keep their membership.

Works really really well. Keeps the “just so I get my guns” member numbers down and makes sure everyone is well trained.

safetyfirst wrote:We have ten disciplines on the back of our cards, each must be signed off by a member of the committee having had competency demonstrated and gone through the primer course for that discipline.

Everyone can shoot .22 when they start which is covered in probation training and the other stuff comes with time.

Every member must also pass a range officers evening course. Each member must do two days as a range officer per year to keep their membership.

Works really really well. Keeps the “just so I get my guns” member numbers down and makes sure everyone is well trained.

Excuse me stupidity, still no one had defined competence to me. What do you look for in a shooter in each specific caliber?

Dorset_shooter wrote:

safetyfirst wrote:We have ten disciplines on the back of our cards, each must be signed off by a member of the committee having had competency demonstrated and gone through the primer course for that discipline.

Everyone can shoot .22 when they start which is covered in probation training and the other stuff comes with time.

Every member must also pass a range officers evening course. Each member must do two days as a range officer per year to keep their membership.

Works really really well. Keeps the “just so I get my guns” member numbers down and makes sure everyone is well trained.

Excuse me stupidity, still no one had defined competence to me. What do you look for in a shooter in each specific caliber?

It is not all about calibre. Our range has a 3 month beginners course, which if you are felt to be safe allows you to become an advanced probationer and shoot on other club days under supervision. If after 6 months we are happy you are a safe shooter you are offered full membership.

As a full member you are able to shoot on all our ranges, 20 yard (usually lsr), 25 yard prone and bench and 10m air. If you are the first on the range you are also expected to act as RSO.

We require you to demonstrate competence on all ranges as the safety aspects are different and once a full member you have access to them all. This is not just about your safety, but also the safety of other members and in 100 years we have only had one incident which was caused by an undeclared medical condition.

At the end of the day, if patience is not one of your traits, you probably shouldn't be shooting as you are unlikely to shoot a good group. Likewise, the members who volunteer their time to train should not have it wasted by people who think because they have played call of duty they will be a crack shot.

Our club, our rules..

Dorset_shooter wrote:
Excuse me stupidity, still no one had defined competence to me. What do you look for in a shooter in each specific caliber?

I really don't know why you are so fixated on calibre when most people replying are referring to learning with different action types and different disciplines.

As for what defines comptence, the NRA has a competency framework in place for the SCCs. can't find a link right this time, but it is all about someone assessing good practice and also asking some questions too. This is auditable and clubs failing to provide adequate assessment can have their SCCs removed and therefore lose access to MoD ranges.

Hrun wrote:

Dorset_shooter wrote:

safetyfirst wrote:We have ten disciplines on the back of our cards, each must be signed off by a member of the committee having had competency demonstrated and gone through the primer course for that discipline.

Everyone can shoot .22 when they start which is covered in probation training and the other stuff comes with time.

Every member must also pass a range officers evening course. Each member must do two days as a range officer per year to keep their membership.

Works really really well. Keeps the “just so I get my guns” member numbers down and makes sure everyone is well trained.

Excuse me stupidity, still no one had defined competence to me. What do you look for in a shooter in each specific caliber?

It is not all about calibre. Our range has a 3 month beginners course, which if you are felt to be safe allows you to become an advanced probationer and shoot on other club days under supervision. If after 6 months we are happy you are a safe shooter you are offered full membership.

As a full member you are able to shoot on all our ranges, 20 yard (usually lsr), 25 yard prone and bench and 10m air. If you are the first on the range you are also expected to act as RSO.

We require you to demonstrate competence on all ranges as the safety aspects are different and once a full member you have access to them all. This is not just about your safety, but also the safety of other members and in 100 years we have only had one incident which was caused by an undeclared medical condition.

At the end of the day, if patience is not one of your traits, you probably shouldn't be shooting as you are unlikely to shoot a good group. Likewise, the members who volunteer their time to train should not have it wasted by people who think because they have played call of duty they will be a crack shot.

Our club, our rules..

Like I said before, I’m not trying to start a war.

Until recently I had never been to a range, I started shooting shotguns at a very young age. Safety was drummed into me like nothing else, my family are all shooters.

You say it’s not all about caliber but from what most people are saying clearly that’s how there club perceive it? I have been taught that an air rifle is to be treated in the same way as ANY firearm.

So what Changes on your range in regards to safety? I would imagine it’s the same regardless of gun used or 20/25m/air

Can you be a safe shooter with .22 but not .50bmg??

I’m just simply trying to work out what people are meaning by competent shooters?

I wouldn’t ever argue against clubs working towards safe shooting.

I don’t have an issue with patience , I have an issue with people making it difficult for new people to get into the sport for no real reason.

We as a family have introduced many people into the sport, it’s our passion.
Never is saftdy compromised, but I don’t make people start on a 410 before they shoot a 12g if it’s too small for them......

And just for reference I don’t play video games

RDC wrote:

Dorset_shooter wrote:
Excuse me stupidity, still no one had defined competence to me. What do you look for in a shooter in each specific caliber?

I really don't know why you are so fixated on calibre when most people replying are referring to learning with different action types and different disciplines.

As for what defines comptence, the NRA has a competency framework in place for the SCCs. can't find a link right this time, but it is all about someone assessing good practice and also asking some questions too. This is auditable and clubs failing to provide adequate assessment can have their SCCs removed and therefore lose access to MoD ranges.

I’m not, nor am I interested in shooting certain types of action.

My point is, regardless of caliber or action. The club I am a member of is capable of shooting everything up to .50cal.

People should not be expected to work through all the different actions or calibers before applying for a FAC to shoot the bolt action .22 they actually want to shoot?

I’ll be honest, the shooting community outside of “ranges” are much more understanding/welcoming and easier to be a part of. I understand why people are put off this sport

If you read the NRA Probation course run down it gives you a good idea of what we are talking about I believe, specifically the Course Overview section:
https://nra.org.uk/courses-and-training ... s-courses/

Having never been outside of the above process I don't know if it is possible to just join a club and shoot .22 and never get a SCC sign-off for anything else unfortunately.

P

Turning the original question on its head somewhat.

I have been a member of a local club (25metre pistol calibre) since before the pistol ban
since then it has become stuck in its ways,with what amounts to hatred for the NRA due to the lack of support in the pistol ban ( lets forget that ) so no chance to go to Bisley .new members were grudgingly accepted if a friend of an established member and they were treated to a 6 month probation with very basic training for safety .Now the 6 months probation meant that in Essex for the last 2 years an 18month wait for a licence ,boredom and apathy set in and the potential new members were lost ,then membership fees increased and some of the older members (for one reason or another) could no longer shoot and left .
The club guns become out of date and the club was really failing on its feet.

Bringing this up to date the club leadership had a shake up and we actively set about increasing members , low and behold 10 members within 2 months ,affiliate to the NRA and then go to Bisley then another couple of new members .
Most of the new guys were allready shooters but wanted to try something else ,the existing members want to try something else (Bisley) its just a case of keeping the interest going ....
So to that end in the next 2 years in no particular order .
More internal club comps
Look at more postal comps (any recomendations welcome)
Meeting up with other clubs maybe
Explore different disiplines
Get some modern club guns that appeal to younger people ie AK47 M4 ETC .IN 22
Expand on the social side as in trips to places of interest or gun shows etc
Family fun shoots ?
We even have a few interested in going abroad to shoot pistol and centrefire semi auto rifles .
Encourage membership .

Dellboy wrote:Turning the original question on its head somewhat.

I have been a member of a local club (25metre pistol calibre) since before the pistol ban
since then it has become stuck in its ways,with what amounts to hatred for the NRA due to the lack of support in the pistol ban ( lets forget that ) so no chance to go to Bisley .new members were grudgingly accepted if a friend of an established member and they were treated to a 6 month probation with very basic training for safety .Now the 6 months probation meant that in Essex for the last 2 years an 18month wait for a licence ,boredom and apathy set in and the potential new members were lost ,then membership fees increased and some of the older members (for one reason or another) could no longer shoot and left .
The club guns become out of date and the club was really failing on its feet.

Bringing this up to date the club leadership had a shake up and we actively set about increasing members , low and behold 10 members within 2 months ,affiliate to the NRA and then go to Bisley then another couple of new members .
Most of the new guys were allready shooters but wanted to try something else ,the existing members want to try something else (Bisley) its just a case of keeping the interest going ....
So to that end in the next 2 years in no particular order .
More internal club comps
Look at more postal comps (any recomendations welcome)
Meeting up with other clubs maybe
Explore different disiplines
Get some modern club guns that appeal to younger people ie AK47 M4 ETC .IN 22
Expand on the social side as in trips to places of interest or gun shows etc
Family fun shoots ?
We even have a few interested in going abroad to shoot pistol and centrefire semi auto rifles .
Encourage membership .

My club is just on the cusp of having to look at the future due to loosing some of the 'old guard' committee members who having now retired/been forced to retire from shooting on health grounds in the past 18 months (all over 80 yrs old)
We don't have our own facilities (the club originally did many years ago, as it's origins were as a company shooting club that had its own 25m small-bore range within the company grounds) so all our shooting is at Bisley anyway.

Your point about meeting other clubs is an interesting one, but we seem to be a very insular sport/activity in that regard, as if its almost actively discouraged...?