Permanently attached suppressors ?

[Hrun]

All I think this proves is that firearms law was not written by shooters..

The home office email makes sense of this and I would be happy requesting the work to be done. A sec5 rfd taking a section one barrel, working on it and handing it back after proofing as a section one does not put the public at risk, which is ultimately why firearms law exists.

[breacher]

It defines components as "firearms" in the sense that possession of a component requires a FAC etc

It does not mean that they regard a component as a firearm in the sense you think. Otherwise any component under 24" long would be prohibited as a "FIREARM" under 24" is prohibited.

So - a receiver on its own is a "firearm" in so much as its controlled but it is NOT a firearm for the purposes of other parts of the same legislation such as length requirements.

Otherwise, a receiver ( a firearm according to you ) under 24" long would be prohibited.

And this ties in with Sims explanation - a barrel taken off a sec 1 firearm is a component - it remains a component and its category remains the same until it is assembled into a firearm, THEN the category is decided. If it is then over 12" inc suppressor it retains the original category.

Because the barrel is a component, like other components, there is no length requirement of it UNTIL it forms part of a full firearm.

[BamBam]

Does home office advice supersede the firearm law guidance?

[AR15]

It defines components as "firearms" in the sense that possession of a component requires a FAC etc

It does not mean that they regard a component as a firearm in the sense you think. Otherwise any component under 24" long would be prohibited as a "FIREARM" under 24" is prohibited.

So - a receiver on its own is a "firearm" in so much as its controlled but it is NOT a firearm for the purposes of other parts of the same legislation such as length requirements.

Otherwise, a receiver ( a firearm according to you ) under 24" long would be prohibited.

And this ties in with Sims explanation - a barrel taken off a sec 1 firearm is a component - it remains a component and its category remains the same until it is assembled into a firearm, THEN the category is decided. If it is then over 12" inc suppressor it retains the original category.

Because the barrel is a component, like other components, there is no length requirement of it UNTIL it forms part of a full firearm.

What on earth are you on about?
Where in the guidance does it state your explanation: ''Because the barrel is a component, like other components, there is no length requirement of it UNTIL it forms part of a full firearm''.
Your just making it up.

While the guidance may have grey areas and ambiguities, the spirit of it is clear.
Based on your insane logic you can pull the barrel of a Sec1 gun and chop it down to 8'' and all will be OK as long as you dont re assemble it, it wont, you will get arrested. North Yorkshire would arrest you immediately.
WHY DOES THE HOME OFFICE REQUIRE THE SHORTENING WORK TO BE CONDUCTED BY A SEC5 GUNSMITH?

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.

WHERE IN THE GUIDANCE DOES IT STATE THAT A COMPONENT PART HAS TO COME FROM AN EXISTING FIREARM?

Clearly 3.25 states that a component part of a Sec5aba firearm CAN be manufactured and it is illegal to do so with a 3D printer.
How is it OK to make the same component with a lathe then???

Your notion that Component Parts of Sec5 a and aba firearms are not prohibited parts when manufactured until they are assembled into a actual Sec5 a or aba firearm is madness.
Where is it stated in the guidance?

[AR15]

The term 'firearm' in the 1968 guidance probably did not mean to cover component parts, just complete rifles.
The 2016 Guidance 3.26 states clearly that the term 'firearm' as detailed in the 1968 document DOES include component parts and the wording can be used to describe both parts and complete guns.
Obviously receivers under 24'' are not illegal as there are many thousands of them out there and have been for many many years.
So while the new guidance is clear about component parts its new wording could be construed to include all parts under 24'' overall length.
Nobody is ever going to get arrested and charged for possession of a receiver under 24'' as an ownership precedent has already been set.

The guidance, however, has attempted to cover the manufacture of a prohibited component of which a barrel under 12'' most certainly is.

[breacher]

You missed the point I was making - I will try one more time...........

You stated that according to the guidence - A firearm includes components. That a component is to be treated as a firearm.

By that logic, each individual controlled component would have to have an overall length exceeding 24"

But that is not the case. The ASSEMBLED firearm has to be over 24" - ergo, the components when unassembled do not need to have a minimum length.

Also, under UK law - legislation is deemed to permit what is not specifically prohibited.

The Firearms Act has a section specifically written into it, to SPECIFICALLY deal with the shortening of SHOTGUN barrels. It has no SPECIFIC mention of shortening rifle barrels.

The firearms act, when it lays down length requirements, it relates to ASSEMBLED firearms.


As to your "Nobody is ever going to get arrested and charged for possession of a receiver under 24'' as an ownership precedent has already been set"

Completely wrong - the reason is - a component part does not have a length requirement ! Because it is not a firearm. It is a controlled part. There is a subtle difference. And a barrel, on its own, is a component part.

[Sim G]

Does home office advice supersede the firearm law guidance?

No, they are one and the same. The "law" is what has been decreed either via primary legislation, stated case or statutory instrument, rules and regulations. How the law may be applied with regards to firearms will come in the form of Home Office guidance and Home Office instructions and circulars.

None of that issued in the form of "advice or guidance" supersedes the law. It may however, influence eventually in that should guidance indicate that a particular aspect of legislation is obsolete, then policy or judicial decisions could be decreed with this in mind subsequently nullifying legislation. Almost an event of case law without going before a court.

[Sim G]

et al.

There is no such thing a s5 component per se, there are only prohibited weapons which contain component parts that will be regarded as accordingly. A slight, but very significant difference. You yourself agreed to this exact point with reference to an AR bolt. Whatever that part is fitted to will decree it's classification, even though it will require s1 status immediately due to its very nature. But it does not attract s5 status, purely by existing.

Within the context of the thread, a barrel removed from a s1 firearm is a s1 component. Chop it to 8", it remains a s1 component all the while it is not fitted to a firearm. It's length only becomes an issue if it is fitted back on a firearm when too short. Permanently attach a device to the end prior to fitting and the barrel is still a s1 component and when refitted, as long as it exceeds 12" when installed and the overall length exceeds 24", the firearm remains s1, as do the components.

Fit the barrel to a firearm when too short, the firearm becomes a prohibited weapon and the barrel, as a component of a now prohibited weapon, is itself now a s5 component. Not before.

The sum of its parts, not the individual parts themselves until a whole.

You mentioned earlier full auto trigger groups. What happens if you were to fit a full auto trigger group in a s1 straight pull? Nothing. The trigger unit is not a component part and the straight pull will not operate to the degree that it falls into s5.

[BamBam]

Completely wrong - the reason is - a component part does not have a length requirement ! Because it is not a firearm. It is a controlled part. There is a subtle difference. And a barrel, on its own, is a component part.

Why did they specify a Sec 5 RFD to do the work if the barrel on it's own outside of a firearm is only a component?

All power to you for doing something different, but regardless of the assurances I would be concerned about becoming an actual test case.

[Sim G]

Why did they specify a Sec 5 RFD to do the work if the barrel on it's own outside of a firearm is only a component?

They also stated he would have to apply for a variation....

The spirit of the advice is quite correct, the conversion can legally occur. The mechanics they've offered is almost a "must say something for the sake of it" and actually baseless.