The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Pippin89 wrote:.............Either way I guess we just have to be hopeful that BSG are successful in their case against the NSC and get to hold onto Bisley and continue to run it as they are!

I hope not. I want to shoot over winter from the cover of the 300m sheds not the rain & wind swept butt 19. I would like to hire the buffalo target for members even 1100, 1200yds but cant because a private Co, that makes a good profit had a lease that prevented a members organisation from fully utilising their own ranges? They wont win their case NRA hasn't lost one. It won the artists case just the compensation & lease was calibrated by the court.

For all the bullshit espoused on here about not being the 'National' Rifle Assoc its the nearest thing we have & its best to build on it, not damage it.

hitchphil wrote:

Pippin89 wrote:.............Either way I guess we just have to be hopeful that BSG are successful in their case against the NSC and get to hold onto Bisley and continue to run it as they are!

I hope not. I want to shoot over winter from the cover of the 300m sheds not the rain & wind swept butt 19. I would like to hire the buffalo target for members even 1100, 1200yds but cant because a private Co, that makes a good profit had a lease that prevented a members organisation from fully utilising their own ranges? They wont win their case NRA hasn't lost one. It won the artists case just the compensation & lease was calibrated by the court.

For all the bullshit espoused on here about not being the 'National' Rifle Assoc its the nearest thing we have & its best to build on it, not damage it.

I think you are being unrealistic, its not BSG that is preventing the use of various ranges , its the geography of the safety areas, if the NRA took control back and had the choice of making a couple of grand from pay and play clays combined with lessons etc and having a few people shooting on Century, I am pretty certain you would be in the rain again! as to 1100 and 1200, surely its the fact that it effectively closes off half or all of Stickledown thats the issue ?

hitchphil wrote:

Pippin89 wrote:.............Either way I guess we just have to be hopeful that BSG are successful in their case against the NSC and get to hold onto Bisley and continue to run it as they are!

I hope not. I want to shoot over winter from the cover of the 300m sheds not the rain & wind swept butt 19. I would like to hire the buffalo target for members even 1100, 1200yds but cant because a private Co, that makes a good profit had a lease that prevented a members organisation from fully utilising their own ranges? They wont win their case NRA hasn't lost one. It won the artists case just the compensation & lease was calibrated by the court.

For all the bullshit espoused on here about not being the 'National' Rifle Assoc its the nearest thing we have & its best to build on it, not damage it.

If I'm not mistaken the NRA/NSC also have the opportunity to use the full range and close BSG for 85 days a year so the 300m sheds, Buffalo target etc could all be used on those days.

MotorRacingBruce1980 wrote:

hitchphil wrote:

Pippin89 wrote:.............Either way I guess we just have to be hopeful that BSG are successful in their case against the NSC and get to hold onto Bisley and continue to run it as they are!

I hope not. I want to shoot over winter from the cover of the 300m sheds not the rain & wind swept butt 19. I would like to hire the buffalo target for members even 1100, 1200yds but cant because a private Co, that makes a good profit had a lease that prevented a members organisation from fully utilising their own ranges? They wont win their case NRA hasn't lost one. It won the artists case just the compensation & lease was calibrated by the court.

For all the bullshit espoused on here about not being the 'National' Rifle Assoc its the nearest thing we have & its best to build on it, not damage it.

If I'm not mistaken the NRA/NSC also have the opportunity to use the full range and close BSG for 85 days a year so the 300m sheds, Buffalo target etc could all be used on those days.

the Imperial is over 30 of them in one go. The NSRA meeting cant use the left side of Century so the NRA use more of the right hand side for another 10 & in winter butt 18 & 19 can be very busy every weekend thats ~15 to 24 targets whilst 4?-6 of the 300m bays lay empty & never used (only 2 bays are used by the 300m ISSF shooters). The rest is unused range space. Both F class (long range) & CSR are growing & need more space, so other users need the yielded up space + the 7 targets per 100yds echelon safety gaps. Add to that the ability to move firing point use about & reduce the wear on them. I think the closure days of the danger area located BSG will far more in favour of the main rifle range users than they have been to date. Long Siberia does not prevent any other range closures & another gallery range set up there might be a welcome facility too?

MotorRacingBruce1980 wrote:

hitchphil wrote:

Pippin89 wrote:.............Either way I guess we just have to be hopeful that BSG are successful in their case against the NSC and get to hold onto Bisley and continue to run it as they are!

I hope not. I want to shoot over winter from the cover of the 300m sheds not the rain & wind swept butt 19. I would like to hire the buffalo target for members even 1100, 1200yds but cant because a private Co, that makes a good profit had a lease that prevented a members organisation from fully utilising their own ranges? They wont win their case NRA hasn't lost one. It won the artists case just the compensation & lease was calibrated by the court.

For all the bullshit espoused on here about not being the 'National' Rifle Assoc its the nearest thing we have & its best to build on it, not damage it.

If I'm not mistaken the NRA/NSC also have the opportunity to use the full range and close BSG for 85 days a year so the 300m sheds, Buffalo target etc could all be used on those days.

I refer you to my comment re the relative profitability of the 2 uses, in this day and age is it realistic to expect the NRA to pass over profit in favour of their membership? if so then half the rectoric on this forum (at least) about the NRA has been shall we say "misguided"

This discussion has started to overlook one fact: the NRA is us, the shooters. We elect the various committees and the CE reports to them. If you don't like it get involved.
Most of the carping come from people who treat the NRA as a remote company that provides us with a service, in the same way as Landmark. They are not. The NRA is run by shooters for shooters. It makes mistakes, partly because the shooting community does not all get involved. If you don't like what is happening, join, vote and get it changed.
Fred

As someone who has been tried to get meaningfully involved for over thirty years Fred I am sorry but that recommendation wears a bit thin in practice.

The issue of lack of transparency, lack of allowing member engagement and listening to members views along with disciplinary tactics to silence any dissent have been raised as issues by the Charity commissioners, so no wonder people give up on trying to engage with the organisation. It has serious institutional problems which need addressing if being an active member is going to mean anything.

As to the NRA being run by shooters for shooters, the reality is that it is run by Bisley shooters for Bisley shooters not for non Bisley members, that is fact.

Also they don't seem to be doing much of job of that either if the charity commissioners damning report is anything to go by.

I agree! of course it is run by Bisley shooters----they have clubs houses---which the NRA seems to be trying to take away from them---they have developed facilities, such as the sporting rifle ranges---which the NRA seems to be trying to take away from them. They have come close to destroying the arms fair at the Phoenix meeting. They threw he MLAGB out of the Exhibition Hut.None of this would have come about if the grass roots members actually attended meetings, went into detail correspondence with officials and moved into the various committees, all of which seem to have difficulty attracting member participation.
The current administration have achieved a lot. They took over a bankrupt organisation and made if profitable. They have greatly improved the facilities at Bisley. Not all of the current changes which are going through would upset members---it is the Nationa Rifle Assoviation, not the Clay Shooting Association and I am all in favour of the NRA taking control more, but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF ITS GRASS ROOTS MEMBERS!
I repeat what I have already said---GET INVOLVED. This is your organisation. It may not be the National Organisation that we all want yet, but it is all we have got.
Fred

Unfortunately the opportunities for involvement are very limited, as far as I can see it amounts to standing for election to some committee or other.

Even then according to the Charity Commissioners report there is very little influence available when elected, how would you suggest one gets meaningfully involved??

We have a vote. We can stand for office. I know that this is difficult and will take time to become effective, therefore I suggest that each member / shooter lobbies the people on the committees.
I feel like going down there and giving them a good shaking. What I want is for the younger shooters to get involved and effectively finish up running the place. I accept that I am a dinasaur: an old pistol shooter whose main interests have always been in classics and black powder. This forum indicates that the future is about high tech rifles and sighting systems. Target rifle is still popular, but "F" Class and Civillian Service Rifle is slowly taking over . Gallery rifle is a money spinner for the NRA and has recieved vastly improved facilities since the pistol days, but I am not sure that it has much management representation.
I am as frustrated as you are Dromia, simply trying to keep a balanced view and be positive. Negativity is effectivel the same as giving up
Fred