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Currently I use an AR15 Speedmaster which has a wonderful 1:8 twist barrel and beautifully handles either 55g or 62g milsurp ammo equally well. I’m now considering a decent bolt action rifle that my daughter can use and possibly be gifted as her first gun. I have considered the usual suspects from Remington, Tikka, CZ and Howa all which have a heavy barrel and a 1:8 or 9 twist all except the Howa which has a 1:12.

This leads me to the question ........ does anyone have any actual experience with the Howa 1500 varmint rifles and their ability to shoot bullets that are over 55g ? What I really want to know is if I shoot anything heavier such as standard RG L2A2, GGG etc what kind of accuracy will you actually get ?

I don't have experience of the Howa Varmint in 223, but in 308 Win where it's a well made, accurate rifle by factory rifle standards.

I CAN tell you with direct experience that 1-12" twist will not stabilise the 62gn SS109 pattern FMJBT milspec bullet or the 68/69gn HPBT match bullets from Hornady, Nosler, Sierra etc.

You need a 1-10" twist rate, which in practice means 1-9" from most factory models. The cheapest available is the Remington 700 SPS Tactical which has a 20 inch barrel.

Dont discount the Ruger M77 VT in 223. 1 in 9 26" barrel and loves the 69grn Sierra MK's
I managed to get hold of on for my wife a couple of years ago that was an ex display jobbie and £400 off the list price! Cracking rifle and a joy to shoot.
Shame that Howa dont do a 1 in 9 barrel option as I am sure they would sell a hat full.

Meaty wrote:Dont discount the Ruger M77 VT in 223. 1 in 9 26" barrel and loves the 69grn Sierra MK's.

I'm open to all makes, models and configurations, I've also looked at the Savage Axis which is a really cheap 1:9, brand new for less than £400 and has some really good reviews !! Ideally I want a detachable magazine or some something that is ready convertible .... not a show stopper but a nice to have.

Laurie wrote:I CAN tell you with direct experience that 1-12" twist will not stabilise the 62gn SS109 pattern FMJBT milspec bullet or the 68/69gn HPBT match bullets from Hornady, Nosler, Sierra etc.

You need a 1-10" twist rate, which in practice means 1-9" from most factory models. The cheapest available is the Remington 700 SPS Tactical which has a 20 inch barrel.

Laurie, do you have any details of how bad the groups are with this ammo, to be honest I'm happy to use 55g ammo, just looking for the flexibility I already have in I use the wrong type.

I have a Howa 1500 Varmint in .223 and it clover leafs with 52gr A-Max

I did think of trying 60gr flat base but cannot find any non expanding types.

Remington will do what you want, 1:9 twist.

Or the How's plus a decent barrel.

I had a Remy 700 VS with 26-inch 1-12 when it was first introduced. You bought a PSS if you wanted a 1-9, but I preferred the VS stock. (They were a lot cheaper in '98 even taking inflation into account.) The VS shot superbly with 52-53gn match bullets from Sierra and Hornady and they worked very well indeed to 300 yards. At 500 and 600, you got a lot of wind-reading experience unless it was avery calm day!

At a later date, Edgar Bros loaned me a then newly introduced Cz527 heavy barrel model, can't remember its name, with the H-S Precision bedding block synthetic stock. It was allegedly 1-9", but 69gn Sierra SMKs sort of grouped at 200 yards, that is just about made the black of a standard NRA target, while 68gn Hornady HPBTMs could hardly hit the target frame at all. It had a 1-12" of course as did the first 50 examples to arrive here, long since put right.

The 62gn milspec SS109 pattern bullet actually needs a slightly tighter twist than the 68/69gn match models being both longer and lighter. Its already dubious precision goes down the nearest drain with a 1-12" barrel.

Cheers Laurie, this is exactly the type of info I've been looking for. I have no issues in buying the right rifle when the time comes and a 1:10/9/8 was always the first choice however with the abundance of other types I just wanted to know if it really made that much of a difference.

I think the CZ you refer to is the Kevlar model, one I've been looking at as a possible contender ....

I'll continue my search and wait until there is a bargain to be as I'm in no rush to buy at the moment

sign92

Landy Dave wrote:I have a Howa 1500 Varmint in .223 and it clover leafs with 52gr A-Max

.

What he said.

Mike