Straight pull AR and extraction

[longrange223]

Hello,

I came to this forum for expertise on straight pull AR's. :) I shoot a semi auto AR in IPSC, and is wondering about building a straight pull upper which would enable me to compete with approximately the same rifle in other sactioning bodies restricted to manual mechanisms. That way I can get a lot of good training with the same trigger and ergonomics.

One thing that struck me, is that designs such as the straighat pull AR's may be hard to cycle smoothly in manual, because of the amount of extra force required for the primary extraction. Are you familiar with this? I also read that because of this, it was common to make softer .223 loads for easier extraction. Here's a video of what seems to be heavy extractions. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZyBhooTv0M

It scares me a bit to spend money on an extra upper if I would have to make use very special soft handloads. What is your experience? If the extraction isn't too heavy, perhaps a speedshooting technique like the one used in stangskyting could be used. There the forefinger and thumb are held at the handle all the time during shooting, while only the middle finger is used on the trigger. But then again, a central question is how hard the primary extraction is.

Looking forward to hear your replies.

[safetyfirst]

Hi there. I own a Lantac straight pull rifle and shoot everything from military surplus to 78gn handloads and rarely do I have any issues with extraction.

The quality of the upper will dictate your experience here though, Lantac for example have a number of technologies in their bolts to specifically smooth out manual extraction, check out their section on here or their website.

I've also used Bradley arms uppers and southern gun uppers both of which have been honed for easy extraction through chamber polishing and carefully tuned bolts etc.

The trick is to buy an upper from someone who makes them specially for straight pull operation I'd say.

[breacher]

Absolutely no problems.

.223 from Bradley Arms.
.308 from LMT

I only use GGG factory match ammo and it runs perfectly.

[BamBam]

I shoot a Lantac .223 straight pull, extraction is never an issue.
Fed everything from GGG, Hornady, Barnul steel case, Remington, Geco, Privi, CBC, RG.

If building one yourself, remember to remove the gas rings from the bolt and installing a POF roller cam pin can smooth things out.

Or, just buy a dedicated upper with dedicated straight pull side charging bolt like one of these.

[Individual]

Absolutely no problems.

.223 from Bradley Arms.
.308 from LMT

I only use GGG factory match ammo and it runs perfectly.

+1 I've used factory ammo GGG, RG, PPU 69 PPU 75 in my Bradley Arms and extraction has never been an issue

I compete regularly in CSR so reliability is vital.

Guy in the video you posted is making heavy work of it. Extraction is best done with the butt in your shoulder.

[bnz41]

I have used Lantac .223 SP but have owned a Decade AR15 & 3x Southern Gun Co AR's never had an issue with any factory (GGG PPU Barnul steel case even RG) or my full charge reloads using various bullet weights from 62gr-75gr. Number one bullet is 69gr SMK.

[longrange223]

Thanks for the replies. I'm both considering purchasing a straigt pull upper, or convert one of my semi uppers to straight pull. Buying a finished one is of course the easiest. After some searching I've come up with the following manufacturers. Are there any other right side chargers that I'm missing?
- Bradley Arms
- Lantac
- Lewis Machine & Tool
- Southern Gun Company

Is a "slickside" upper preferrable? The LMT design in the picture below has kept the forward assist and part of the case deflector, but maybe that will be bothersome and get in the way when cycling the mechanism fast?

chamber polishing and carefully tuned bolts etc. The trick is to buy an upper from someone who makes them specially for straight pull operation I'd say.

I am wondering about building my own upper using a regular barrel, so this is interesting. I will try to close the gas port on my rifle next time I'm on the range, and see if the extractions are tough. Hopefully that will give an idea if chamber polishing could be a thing.

If building one yourself, remember to remove the gas rings from the bolt and installing a POF roller cam pin can smooth things out.

Did a little reserach on the POF roller cam pins, and it seemed like they were meant for piston uppers. In case of a DI upper with a gas key, the gas key has to be taken off to mount/ diassemble the roller cam pin. That's not optimal for maintenance. Another option I found, that maybe could have worked, is the Hydra-Fire Roller Cam Pin, which can be assembled/ disassembled on regular bolt carriers.

Does anybody happen to know what threads the different manufacturers use to connect their handles to the carrier? I read on some U.S. forums that side chargers using 1/4"-20 screws (1.270 mm pitch) more easily stripped, while this seldom was a problem with 1/4"-28 (0.907 mm pitch) due to finer threads. Armi Dallera Custom use M6x1 threads on their side chargers, which is quite fine. So if I were to do this project myself I think I would choose either two regular M5x0.8 or M6x1 hex screws. Common is always nice, easy to repair and find spares.

Pictures below are of a homemade side charging handle lent from a forum post at snipershide. Wonder how hard the carrier surface is.

[safetyfirst]

Lantac USA do a specific bolt carrier, that might be a way to go for a build.

[bnz41]

Southern Gun Co also offer the upper with a left hand cocking handle which looks like a L1A1 SLR one and folds flat when not being used as well as a right hand handle.

[Alpha1]

I have to ask what is wrong with a bolt action .223.