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Is there any definition of "long barrelled pistol" in legislation ?

I know they are treated differently to other sec 1 firearms so surely there needs to be a definition so one knows if one is handling a carbine or a LBP ?

For instance - if an individual wanted to configure his .22 AR to be shot one handed with a wrist brace rather than from the shoulder, would it need to a one for one variation ?

Is it purely the presence of a butt/stock that defines a carbine ? Or whether it is "shoulder" operated ?

With that in mind - if a stock was attached to a LBP, would it "change classification" to a carbine ?


Moving on from that - what about a LBR converted by permanently attaching a stock ? Would it become a .38 revolving carbine ? I know revolving shotguns ( except 9mm rf ) are prohibited but I see nothing prohibiting a revolving rifle ?

I know of someone who shot his M4 in a LR Pistol match at Bisley by removing the stock and leaving the buffer tube.
This was a few years ago and the rules may have changed to counter this. Also possibly not a LB pistol but a LR pistol (there's another definition conundrum for you).

my mateba was a revolver and was classed as carbine on my FAC, the stock has a splitable joint on it, where you can remove the stock, but still keep OAL correct. So that one was not a LBR and could be used by anyone at my club

The Sportsmans Association are the people to talk to this about. They have persoanally been through court cases and assisted others over this very question, and some of them were very hairy cases.

My understanding of this issue is that there is no such thing as a long barrel pistol/revolver in the legislation, they're just a grey area in law that aren't rifles and aren't short firearms (handguns don't exist in the legislation either!)

Firearms that were manufactured as rifles remain so no matter what you do to them in terms of the stock AFAIK

breacher wrote:Is there any definition of "long barrelled pistol" in legislation ?

From Wikipedia - that font of all (questionable?] knowledge.

"Long-barrelled revolvers" and "long-barrelled pistols" meeting specified criteria are not classified as small, and hence prohibited, firearms; it is legal, with a Firearm Certificate, to possess them. The barrel must be at least 30 cm (12 in) long, and the firearm at least 60 cm (24 in) long, which can be achieved by having a permanently attached extension to the grip or butt of the firearm. Long-barrelled single-shot firearms of any calibre, and semi-automatic pistols of .22 rimfire calibres, are permitted with FAC

AFAIK, that is about it for LBR/LBP's

breacher wrote:http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... its-ar-15/

Hehe

The ambiguity is the home office's fault. The approved club exemption applies to rifle and muzzle loading pistol clubs as when the amendment was made they thought that they had effectively closed off all pistol options other than the smokey sort. The text in the firearms licensing guide states that:

It should also be noted that section 15(1) of the 1988 Act, as amended, does not apply to the use of long barrelled pistols or section 1 shotguns used for target shooting, as it only allows possession of rifles or muzzle-loading pistols at suitably approved clubs. Accordingly, club approval cannot be extended to cover the use of these firearms.

In terms of what constitutes a LBP or LBR, it SMS to be down to how they are sold or distributed. The slot on my FAC says 'Pistol Long Barrel'. If you wanted to buy something from an RFD that they believe or have been advised is a long barreled pistol, they would require that you had a similar slot. RFDs and importers or manufacturers could push the boundaries, but they would likely be reluctant to do so as they may expect a challenge from police forces (look at N Yorks and the S5 air pistol furore!)

Now, if you had something that is sold, marketed, billed and recorded as a rifle (say, a Taurus circuit judge or buckmark) then you only need a rifle slot. If you modify the stock but remain within OAL and barrel rules, it's still a rifle. Just a rifle with an uncomfortable stock. If you wanted to sell it or use in a LBP competition, you might get asked some questions and may have to defend it.

It's ridiculous of course, like much of our legislation.

The 1997 act did away (for the purposes of section one and section 5 ) with the terms rifle, pistol
There is only short firearms (section 5) and firearms that meet the length requirements

1997 act removed the homoffice approval for "pistols" - it used the word pistol
But didn't define what a pistol is

Thus - in absence of statute definition a court would apply the goldern rules when interpretating what a long barrel pistol / pistol is ! Common definition is an arm designed to be fired by one hand
Thus an LBP /LBR would be classed as handguns

A rifle that is 'converted' to be fired with one hand by anyone except a manufacturer whilst still having the correct barrel / overall length will remain what it was orgainally when leaving the factory

Case in point a rfd was found not guilty for 'converting' buckmark rifles to LBPs then still selling them as rifles .
The queen -v- wells 2010

3.8 Any long-barreled pistols with dimensions greater than those stipulated in section 5(1)(aba)
of the 1968 Act (such as the long barreled Uberti Cattleman revolver) are not caught by
this section of the Act and may legally be held on a firearm certificate.

Section 5 1 (aba) A person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Defence Council or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998)], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or manufactures, sells or transfers—any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.

Rockhopper wrote:3.8 Any long-barreled pistols with dimensions greater than those stipulated in section 5(1)(aba)
of the 1968 Act (such as the long barreled Uberti Cattleman revolver) are not caught by
this section of the Act and may legally be held on a firearm certificate.

Section 5 1 (aba) A person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Defence Council or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998)], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or manufactures, sells or transfers—any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.

All that is saying is that handguns that are above the barrel length / overall length are section one
It doesn't mean they are exempted under section 15 (club guns) of the 1988 act