The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

https://nra.org.uk/fac-holder-robbed-of ... ce-advice/

EDIT....New forum rule states an explanation should be included with a link.

In this case it is rather important that the link stays.

Text;

Following a recent very nasty robbery, the Metropolitan Police have asked all the major National Governing Bodies of shooting to circulate advice. The NRA earnestly requests its members to accept and follow the advice, and to pass it on to other firearm owners.

On Saturday 5th September 2020 a firearm certificate holder advertised a gun for sale on GunStar, one of the well-known sites for sales of lawfully owned guns. The advert was answered by two men and the holder arranged for a meeting at his home address. He invited the potential “buyers” into his home where he showed the gun and his certificate. Sadly what happened next would have been a shock to any person. The “buyers” were in fact criminals who proceeded to hold the certificate holder at knife point, tie him and his wife up and then instruct him to load the gun for them. They then left the household, leaving the holder bound.

The police ask us to remind firearms owners that there are criminals who are also reviewing sites like GunStar. It is easy to assume, incorrectly, that purported buyers have the same enthusiasm for the sport as they do. This is not always the case.

To reduce risk of another such crime, the police offer the following, and ask for our assistance to make crimes of this type more difficult to perpetrate and with joint effort, avoid a repetition. They emphasise this is advice; it is not guidance or regulation, and is provided to suggest options:
•Try to check certificates prior to any meeting. A genuine buyer should not object to, for instance, sending an electronic image of their certificate. That includes a photograph of the holder which can be compared with the person at the door, before any entry is allowed into the home.
•Try to complete a sale away from your home. At home, a criminal has access to the entire contents of your safe; a better location may be at your local shooting club as more people will be present. This may be the deterrent needed to prevent the criminal brazen behaviour.
•Advertise locally within your club environment rather than online.
•Ideally use an RFD as a conduit for sale. This is by far the safest option, and while the cost is understood, the risk to holder is entirely negated.

This robbery was shocking for the holder. The police ask for our help to prevent any further, similar incidents.

Thanks for that, some of us don't follow links as a matter of principle. Link dumping is so lazy especially for something as important as this.

I am a bit surprised he let them into his home in these covid times never mind the gun security issues.

I am not sure about the completing sale away from home advice is sufficient as as far as I understand it you can only sell firearms at the certificate holders address or the buyers certificate's address. Clubs and RFDs are also licensed so OK advice but the pound shop car park isn't.

Interesting that they advise avoiding using online sales sites, I completely agree but for additional reasons.

Notwithstanding the shock and trauma to the victim I wonder, especially in the light of the above missive, did he take "reasonable" precautions to secure his firearms in this event and has he thus put his FAC holding in jeopardy?

dromia wrote: ... as as far as I understand it you can only sell firearms at the certificate holders address or the buyers certificate's address.

Do you have a source for that? It's quite common for people to complete private firearm sales at Bisley for example.

Racalman wrote:

dromia wrote: ... as as far as I understand it you can only sell firearms at the certificate holders address or the buyers certificate's address.

Do you have a source for that? It's quite common for people to complete private firearm sales at Bisley for example.

I would have though FAC holders could complete a sale almost anywhere .

RFD's might be different .

Hope the guy and his family are ok and the police dont punish him with fac removal for being a crime victim using the "not taking reasonable security precautions" excuse to do so

With things like this happening it makes you wonder how sensible when buying from someone who isnt local the requirement of sending your FAC off in the post to the seller is, great idea stick a list with all the guns i own in an envelope along with my address and post it, then once they have filled it in they send it back. Thats 2 journeys through our postal system more then i am comfortable with for my certificate

Hello

I bet we can all see it coming, that there will soon be an end to face to face private sales, with all transactions carried out by RFDs

Mauserbill wrote:Hello

I bet we can all see it coming, that there will soon be an end to face to face private sales, with all transactions carried out by RFDs

That will make the GTA happy .

Very worrying situation for anyone wanting to sell a firearm or shotgun face to face. When I wanted to sell my Steyr Aug (a few months ago) this was something which was on my mind, therefore, I chose to part exchange, accepting that I would receive a lower price.

Also, if purchasing I would be uncomfortable sending my FAC to someone I don't know. You are sending your address with a list of all the firearms you own to an unknown party.

I don't think you need to go to the extent of sending your entire FAC, but a photo of your FAC, showing the valid dates and FAC number, with your own address redacted - and also a photo of the page showing you have the entitlement to purchase whatever it is you're going to be buying before someone gives you the details of where they live wouldn't be too much to ask.

it's about due dilligance - I don't think anyone with a genuine intent to buy would have trouble showing those 2 pieces of information if expecting to meet to do a deal.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable giving a random stranger my address to come look at anything related to firearms unless they were a known entity of some description.