Early 80's Grunig & Elmiger 7.62 Target Rifle

[Hauptman]

Does anyone know if the G&E rifles of this period were of decent quality? I'm considering one, but I'm not familiar with the make.
Is the action strong enough to take the sort of battering that MR would inflict, for example? How does it compare with the Swing or the Paramount?
Is it a Mauser derivative? How many lugs? My feeling is that they were designed specifically for 300m competition. This particular example appears to have a wooden stock identical to my Match 54.

Any info appreciated.

Hauptman

[ovenpaa]

I seem to remember Rox of this Parish shoots with a G&E so he may know a bit about the 80's models

[rox]

Does anyone know if the G&E rifles of this period were of decent quality? I'm considering one, but I'm not familiar with the make.
Is the action strong enough to take the sort of battering that MR would inflict, for example? How does it compare with the Swing or the Paramount?
Is it a Mauser derivative? How many lugs? My feeling is that they were designed specifically for 300m competition. This particular example appears to have a wooden stock identical to my Match 54.

Any info appreciated.

Hauptman

They were/are excellent quality, and included a round action 2-lug design and a 3-lug flat-bottom action introduced later. Both have taken me to the Queen's final in the last 10 years, and the 3-lugs took me to the Commonwealth Games and Championships recently. The round action usually had an Anschutz trigger, 1.5 Kg for TR, while the 3-lug version had a GE trigger which is excellent. The 3 lug actions are used by several MR shooters, but I don't know of anyone using the 2-lug action for MR. I have several, including both versions, but I don't use the 2-lug any more. The 3-lug actions can all be fitted into the GE aluminium stock system, which can also accommodate Anschutz actions (and Bleiker with a little modification), so you can shoot 50m .22, 300m 6mm and 300x-1000x TR out of the same stock by swapping barrelled actions (I do this constantly). The wooden stocks included one similar to an Anschutz prone stock, which was 'prone' to breaking at the pistol grip. Mine gave way after being thrown about by Cypriot baggage handlers, was repaired, then gave way again in Jersey, was repaired again, but sees little use these days. They were primarily designed for 300m shooting, and also CISM (they are available magazine fed for that purpose), but in the days when most TR shooters were using military-derived actions they were a class apart, and the Swiss engineering quality left the likes of Swing and Musgrave for dust (not to say that those can't shoot though). They are, however, *very* expensive new, which is perhaps why they weren't more widely adopted (and they didn't achieve dominance in the prize-lists, so never became the fashionable choice - something I'm still trying to rectify!). They use a 'tombstone' recoil lug system, typical of Swiss actions, which are a little bit of a pain for the 'smith, since it requires a little more work, and it does rather preclude pushing the chamber forward when the throat wears, but I don't know of competitive shooters who do that routinely outside of South Africa.

If you come across a 3-lug action or a GE 'Revolution' stock for sale I'd like to know about it!

Any other questions - feel free to ask!

Edit: I should add that all my Grunigs are early-to-mid 80's, and in fact the round action is the latest of them all, by date of manufacture.

..

[rox]

Is the action strong enough to take the sort of battering that MR would inflict, for example? How does it compare with the Swing or the Paramount?

Here's a left hand 3-lug action (the 'Super Target 200', or ST200) in the first generation aluminium stock being used for MR.



..

[R.G.C]

Does anyone know if the G&E rifles of this period were of decent quality? I'm considering one, but I'm not familiar with the make.
Is the action strong enough to take the sort of battering that MR would inflict, for example? How does it compare with the Swing or the Paramount?
Is it a Mauser derivative? How many lugs? My feeling is that they were designed specifically for 300m competition. This particular example appears to have a wooden stock identical to my Match 54.

Any info appreciated.

Hauptman

They were/are excellent quality, and included a round action 2-lug design and a 3-lug flat-bottom action introduced later. Both have taken me to the Queen's final in the last 10 years, and the 3-lugs took me to the Commonwealth Games and Championships recently. The round action usually had an Anschutz trigger, 1.5 Kg for TR, while the 3-lug version had a GE trigger which is excellent. The 3 lug actions are used by several MR shooters, but I don't know of anyone using the 2-lug action for MR. I have several, including both versions, but I don't use the 2-lug any more. The 3-lug actions can all be fitted into the GE aluminium stock system, which can also accommodate Anschutz actions (and Bleiker with a little modification), so you can shoot 50m .22, 300m 6mm and 300x-1000x TR out of the same stock by swapping barrelled actions (I do this constantly). The wooden stocks included one similar to an Anschutz prone stock, which was 'prone' to breaking at the pistol grip. Mine gave way after being thrown about by Cypriot baggage handlers, was repaired, then gave way again in Jersey, was repaired again, but sees little use these days. They were primarily designed for 300m shooting, and also CISM (they are available magazine fed for that purpose), but in the days when most TR shooters were using military-derived actions they were a class apart, and the Swiss engineering quality left the likes of Swing and Musgrave for dust (not to say that those can't shoot though). They are, however, *very* expensive new, which is perhaps why they weren't more widely adopted (and they didn't achieve dominance in the prize-lists, so never became the fashionable choice - something I'm still trying to rectify!). They use a 'tombstone' recoil lug system, typical of Swiss actions, which are a little bit of a pain for the 'smith, since it requires a little more work, and it does rather preclude pushing the chamber forward when the throat wears, but I don't know of competitive shooters who do that routinely outside of South Africa.

If you come across a 3-lug action or a GE 'Revolution' stock for sale I'd like to know about it!

Any other questions - feel free to ask!

Edit: I should add that all my Grunigs are early-to-mid 80's, and in fact the round action is the latest of them all, by date of manufacture.

..

Rox,

+ 1 on all what concers the round action. It was first the 'Lienhard-Anschutz, although made by G+E, the swiss Anschutz agents. I got one from Kurt Gruenig in 1974 and shot it in a 'paddle' stock until I started to shoot my C.G proto. My daughter still have it and she loves it.

Exceptionnal material quality and finish..'Schweizerisches genauigkeit' on all acpects.

I was even before building the rifle not happy with the front screw bushing and, feom the start, made a specific recpil lug clamped between barrel and receeiver and surrounding the threaded bushing up to its half-diameter, creating a large recpil lug and accepring a 3rd forward bedding screw. Shoot beautifully with stll its 1992 Krieger 1/13 barrel!.
R.G.C

[rox]

I was even before building the rifle not happy with the front screw bushing and, feom the start, made a specific recpil lug clamped between barrel and receeiver and surrounding the threaded bushing up to its half-diameter, creating a large recpil lug and accepring a 3rd forward bedding screw. Shoot beautifully with stll its 1992 Krieger 1/13 barrel!.
R.G.C

Robert,

My 2-lug Grunig still carries an 80's Maddco, and very good it is too!

The tombstone lug system is shared with Tanner - in fact the early Tanner 300m action looks like a prototype of the Grunig 2-lug - is there any link, or did they just 'inspire' each other?

Robert.
..

[rox]

Here's a left hand 3-lug action (the 'Super Target 200', or ST200) in the first generation aluminium stock being used for MR.

...and here are a few more from the archive:


The Round 2-lug action:




The ST200 3-lug action:




Another Grunig MR - looks like an early or prototype ST200:




An marriage from Australia: Barnard in a Grunig stock:




A marriage from the Netherlands: Musgrave in a Grunig stock:




My ST200 in .577/450 (just kidding):

[R.G.C]

I was even before building the rifle not happy with the front screw bushing and, feom the start, made a specific recpil lug clamped between barrel and receeiver and surrounding the threaded bushing up to its half-diameter, creating a large recpil lug and accepring a 3rd forward bedding screw. Shoot beautifully with stll its 1992 Krieger 1/13 barrel!.
R.G.C

Robert,

My 2-lug Grunig still carries an 80's Maddco, and very good it is too!

The tombstone lug system is shared with Tanner - in fact the early Tanner 300m action looks like a prototype of the Grunig 2-lug - is there any link, or did they just 'inspire' each other?

Robert.
..

Rox;

No, there was no link and they were rether 'friendly ennemies''. Andres Tanner was a great engineer (BTW, Christel, Frau Tanner was splendidly red haired !!!) , but quite stubborn and did even not wanted to know about Long Range; He was the one who developped the slightly offset sight line,with a soecial stock allowing an upright head position, idea taken later on the G+E Free rifles.

On what you name the tpmbstone lug, there was an other swiss action maker (Furler I think) who used it as well. This gor always my favor as I consider a third screw as forward as possible as extremely important;...

R.G.C

[JCM]

Hello. Here goes my first post...

I believe the riflemaker Mr. R.G.C. is talking about is Furter Olten (Olten is the city in which the company was based). Actually I don´t remember ever seeing a F+O with said tombstone recoil lug, but Bleiker. As curiosity, F+O had an interesting recoil lug system, both in quantity and disposition. It had four recoil lugs arranged horizontally, not unlike the side fins of a submarine, two in the front of the action and other two further back. You can search a patent database for Albert or Kurt Furter for more information. Also interesting is the new Rieder & Lenz website. Their rifles remind of earlier versions of G+E and Tanner rifles, though they seem to use Anschutz triggers. I do apologize for getting a little offtopic.