Scope help

[Tower75]

Hi, all.

In the new year I’m thinking of getting myself a modern .308 rifle, with scope. A first for me. All my stuff is pre 1945.

I’ve looked around the various sites for the standard price for .308 rifles and what I’ve found is most of them come scope-less. I’d prefer to get myself a scoped-gun, but if I have to get myself a separate scope, that’s when I’ll run into trouble.

I know nothing about scopes. A few people have told me that with scopes, you do get what you pay for, however, I don’t fancy breaking the bank here.

Is there such a thing as a cheap-ish scope out there that’ll manage 600+ yards quite happily? Can anyone recommend a company or model that’s a good newbie choice?

Cheers in advance.

[bnz41]

Check out Brian Fox (Fox Firearms)he sells his own branded scopes for just over £100 seen them used at 600+ at Bisley do a good job. He also sells Hakko Japanese glass I have used one in the passed excellent, would get another.

[Tower75]

sign92

I'll check 'em out.

[billgatese30]

Never looked through a Fox scope, but failing that your best bet will be a second hand scope from a good source (forum member who is known trustworthy etc, plenty of scopes on AirgunBBS/Pigeon Watch/Stalking Directory).

If you are looking for 600 yard plus I would advise a 30mm tube as it typically allows for more elevation adjustment which will be invaluable if you wish to shoot up to 1000 yards. If you are going to be shooting that far frequently then you can also get scope mounts/rails which will have an angle machined in to them to help with the elevation issues (typically adding 10, 20, 40 MOA etc)

You will also need to consider the reticle in the scope, especially if you are buying second hand, something that may be nice and thick/visible for foxing under a lamp (which may have been the primary purpose for the scope at the time of sale) will completely cover a target at 1000 yards.

Also, what is your budget, there is a massive difference between what you can get for £100 and £1000 (as I am sure you will realise) smile2

[Scotsgun]

Please, please, please don't waste your money on a cheap scope. There is no such thing as a 'decent' cheap scope. So many people are fooled by the hype or listen to someone who has yet to experience a decent scope themselves. it only ends with regrets and a waste of money.

Will a cheap scope perform well in difficult conditions, will it show the edge of the bull with a crisp edge, will it show the air boiling before the target on a warm day? No it bloody won't!

Become a member of the Deer Stalking Directory and browse the second hand optics page. Deer stalkers tend to value their optics due to requiring their best at dawn and dusk, are generally willing to pay for the best and will care for them.

If seeking a no-nonesence scope then get a fixed one. Ignore illuminated ones and stear clear of those with cluttered reticules like christmas trees. I recently bought a pristine, 4yr old 10x Schmidt Bender for only £275.

Lastly no matter what the yank companies claim, no Bushnell, Burris, Leupold, Redfield or Sightron will match one of the 'Big 4' Europeans.

[Mr_Logic]

Scotsgun, I have to disagree, to a point. First up I DO agree that European glass is better.

However, your inference that leupold, sightron et al are not up to Tower's requirement is incorrect.

I shoot nightforce so yes, I have shelled out on a scope. Two of them in fact. Both are excellent.

However, I wouldn't do it all over again. I would likely go Sightron.

My Leupold is perfectly good for 1000 yards to a reasonable level, certainly 600 yards. I can see mirage and all other things. The mag, at 20x, is a bit light for bullet placement (I do tend to aim off)

However, to get you started even a 10x scope is OK. Bushnell do a 10x Elite which is about 200 quid. It will have solid adjustments and decent optics and will serve you well. Bushnell elites are good optically. I have one which I use for foxing and is clear and bright at 16x.

Re Sightron - I believe Russell Simmonds shoots one. he used to shoot a leupold. Clearly they are up to it...

[Scotsgun]

However, your inference that leupold, sightron et al are not up to Tower's requirement is incorrect.

Lastly no matter what the yank companies claim, no Bushnell, Burris, Leupold, Redfield or Sightron will not match one of the 'Big 4' Europeans.

How exactly are these statements the same? wtfwtf

Just for your info. The original Bushnell Elites, the ones with which Bushnell received awards (admittedly US band awards) were actually built by Bausch & Laumb. A company which Bushnell owned and actually had an optics site at Livingston, Scotland. However the Elites are now built by Bushnell themselves. Honest owner's reviews since are not so favourable.

Re Sightron - I believe Russell Simmonds shoots one. he used to shoot a leupold. Clearly they are up to it...

How exactly does this statement support your somewhat confusing argument? This scope is hardly likely to be a cheap scope and to compare one against a Leupold really isn't much of a test. But then again you're used to settling for 2nd bests - being a Nighforce owner :55:

I'll give you a real time example. It seems a lifetime ago but when sent out to the gulf we were using Schmit Benders and we discovered the yanks nearby had leupolds. This certainly surprised me as until then all outfits i'd come into contact with used European (mostly Schmit Bender and kahles). We did get to try each other's kit and they couldn't believe how inferior their kit was until they had tried ours. Take someone out in testing conditions and hand themm a decent scope. They'll never go back.

[ovenpaa]

We have a range of 'scopes in this house including a 4X Leupold, 42X Nightforce, 12X Kahles, 16X Schmidt und Bender and 24X IOR. As a low magnification 'scope the Leupold is surprisingly crisp, the NF is hideous to my eyes.

The European ones are all of a similar class optically so if I had to rank them it would be difficult.

Kahles/S&B - I cannot separate them however I prefer the turrets on the PMII so that would be my go to 'scope. IOR dare I say even better glass than the previous two however I feel it is let down by the turrets.

Bottom of the list for me is the NF.

We have some Sightrons here and to be honest I have never taken one out of the box, I will have to take a look when I get a spare moment.

[Mr_Logic]

Scotsgun, you spent your post bashing cheap scopes, and then said about Leupold et al. Hence the logical inference.

Re Nightforce, they are rather a lot cheaper than the Schmidt PMII. In the category of high mag target scopes, I rate them above Sightron, Leupold et al. Never had any strife with either Nightforce. Have had strife with Leupold before.

While I agree good glass is vital, adjustments more so IMHO, once the glass is at a decent level.

My statement at the end was simple - if Russell Simmonds is winning the league and the world with Leupold and Sightron, then while we might have differing personal opinion on this, both those brands clearly are good enough to do what Tower wants.

In this situation, a second hand hunting Schmidt is inferior to a Leupold with target turrets and fine crosshair, though the optics will be better on the Schmidt.

Also re Bushnell, mine is a Japanese made Bushnell, and works very nicely. Is it a Schmidt? No, but I don't need it to be!

[20series]

I had a Leupold Mk4 8-25*50 mildot originally very nice but if you change the mag it altered the eye relief !

I now have a Sightron S3 8-32*56 with target dot on my 308 and I have the 10-50*60 on my 284

Personally I think they are the best value scopes on the market. In my opinion the glass is better on the 8-32 but they are both good scopes.

Alan