Grrrrrrrr.....Accuracy

[Jenks]

Scary part for me was on electronics at 1000 yards, I had 5 V's in a row, should I try for 10 or hit the button :?

Go on then wotcha do?


I was shooting alongside two chums at 1000x, we were taking it in turns to shoot three rounds each. when it was my turn the marking disk appeared to be in the same place for each shot. I happened to be in charge of the radio, so I called up the butt marker and asked him the approximate size of the group. Two inches was his reply. But it wasn't smack in the centre of the V bull where I was aiming so I guess it was lousy shooting. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Jenks

[barney57]

The Basics as Used by the Army (marksmanship Prinicples)

Test and Adjust your position.
Correct eye relief.
Good sight Picture
Firm Hold,
NATURAL Allignment
Breathing.
Correct Point of Aim
Squeeze the Trigger
Follow the Shot Through
Release the Trigger.

Then do it over again,,,,,,,,,and again, and again, and again until it becomes second nature,,once you have cracked that,,,then you can start looking at the technicalities ,,,bullet drop, gravity, windage and elevations etc, etc, in other words dont try running until you can walk eh??

[Scotsgun]

Wasn't having a go Jenks. What i was trying to do was make the point that under the conditions on most ranges, practically every rifle produced today is capable of such groups BUT was that group formed at exactly the point of aim and could you do it again and again?.....remember, you can only say yes if that group forms at exactly the point to which you intended it.


As to the question of whether I intimidated them....hmmm, maybe afterwards because i certainly wasn't impressed. If anything i would state that they were over confident and as such i was lulled into a false sense of security - i thought the prep for the test would be a breeze. However when you have a couple of guys lying prone before you, struggling to get 3 bullets inside a 4" circle and then both claim to be accurate shots ....................... These weren't guys new to shooting either.

Anyway, i went to the pub today and brought the subject up with a mate. He's an old boy who's forgot more about riflecraft, shooting, etc than i'll ever learn. He basically let me rant for a while and then asked "So what are you going to do about it?" So both shooters have posponed their shooting tests, are joining me next weekend on my zeroing range and have been warned to bring along at least 100rounds. I'll report back.

[Jenks]

Wasn't having a go Jenks. What i was trying to do was make the point that under the conditions on most ranges, practically every rifle produced today is capable of such groups BUT was that group formed at exactly the point of aim and could you do it again and again?.....remember, you can only say yes if that group forms at exactly the point to which you intended it.


As to the question of whether I intimidated them....hmmm, maybe afterwards because i certainly wasn't impressed. If anything i would state that they were over confident and as such i was lulled into a false sense of security - i thought the prep for the test would be a breeze. However when you have a couple of guys lying prone before you, struggling to get 3 bullets inside a 4" circle and then both claim to be accurate shots ....................... These weren't guys new to shooting either.

Anyway, i went to the pub today and brought the subject up with a mate. He's an old boy who's forgot more about riflecraft, shooting, etc than i'll ever learn. He basically let me rant for a while and then asked "So what are you going to do about it?" So both shooters have posponed their shooting tests, are joining me next weekend on my zeroing range and have been warned to bring along at least 100rounds. I'll report back.

Scotsgun..

Wasn't having a go Jenks. What i was trying to do was make the point that under the conditions on most ranges, practically every rifle produced today is capable of such groups BUT was that group formed at exactly the point of aim and could you do it again and again?.....remember, you can only say yes if that group forms at exactly the point to which you intended it.

Scotsgun..

That group measured .189'' So no i haven't ever produced such a tiny group again. was it exactly where I aimed . No I was zeroing the rifle so it wasn't important where the shots landed what was important was that the three shots formed a group of sufficiently moderate size to facilitate adjustment of the sights. I more normally shoot groups like this.




Pretty average, but most of the shots went almost exactly where I aimed. And for sure would account for a deer out to 200+ yards

I maintain that the first principles of good marksmanship (leaving aside all the safety stuff) is the ability to consistently produce tight groups from all the usual shooting positions. Shot placement, the ability to judge range etc etc can all be taught later. The confidence of being able to produce good tight groups is in my opinion the best aid to becoming a competent rifleman.

Jenks

[ovenpaa]

Confidence in your shot placement regardless of distance is the important part for me regardless of external influences. For me that has to be within a hand span at 1000 yards.

[Alpha1]

Sorry but I have lost track of this thread so what is a DSC1 shooting test.

I am guesing it is some thing to do with deer stalking is that correct if so what does it entail.

If they were so bad why did you not just tell them to naff off.

[dromia]

Deer Society.

DSC -1 = Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1

Now don't start me on that shower. :evil:

[Jenks]

Confidence in your shot placement regardless of distance is the important part for me regardless of external influences. For me that has to be within a hand span at 1000 yards.

Ovenpaa..




Well I wish I could get all of my shots into a span of a hand at 1000x on a regular basis, in fact shooting prone off a Harris bipod I have rarely acheived it. And it has certainly never happened for me on a string of ten shots.In fact I don’t recall getting ten shots into a 14.4 inch V bull.There is nearly always a flyer to spoil it. I wonder how many contributors here a capable of doing so. on a regular basis Sat at a bench with the rifle surrounded by sandbags and the like, supported front and rear maybe, but the shooter still has to dope the wind and therein lies the art. Most people here will probably shooting on ranges where the distance to the target is known so estimating range is not a problem Deer stalkers will probably shoot deer at ranges not exceeding two hundred yards so a rifle zeroed at that range will be suitable for his needs. An old stalking adage comes to mind… ‘Aim at Hair not Air.’ It is not uncommon to misjudge range usually thinking a deer is further away than it is I maintain that if a hobby shooter can consistently shoot tight groups shot placement follows naturally.

Jenks

[Jenks]

Sorry but I have lost track of this thread so what is a DSC1 shooting test.

I am guesing it is some thing to do with deer stalking is that correct if so what does it entail.

If they were so bad why did you not just tell them to naff off.

Alpha 1..

Don't know what the DSCI shooting test comprises of. I did the old British Deer Society Woodland stalkers competence certificate. And if i recall correctly a candidate had to be able to produce a 4'' group at 100x . Then using the deer society Roe Deer Target, he had to land his shots in the indicated but not visible chest kill zone.. (though I guess those amomgst us that can see bullet holes at a 1000x would see it ) He first shoots from 100x prone, then down to 75x sitting, then 50x kneeling finally standing at twenty five yards. He can use a stick as a shooting aid.

This might not be 100% accurate. It was a long, long time ago. :lol:

Jenks

[barney57]

Wasn't having a go Jenks. What i was trying to do was make the point that under the conditions on most ranges, practically every rifle produced today is capable of such groups BUT was that group formed at exactly the point of aim and could you do it again and again?.....remember, you can only say yes if that group forms at exactly the point to which you intended it.


As to the question of whether I intimidated them....hmmm, maybe afterwards because i certainly wasn't impressed. If anything i would state that they were over confident and as such i was lulled into a false sense of security - i thought the prep for the test would be a breeze. However when you have a couple of guys lying prone before you, struggling to get 3 bullets inside a 4" circle and then both claim to be accurate shots ....................... These weren't guys new to shooting either.

Anyway, i went to the pub today and brought the subject up with a mate. He's an old boy who's forgot more about riflecraft, shooting, etc than i'll ever learn. He basically let me rant for a while and then asked "So what are you going to do about it?" So both shooters have posponed their shooting tests, are joining me next weekend on my zeroing range and have been warned to bring along at least 100rounds. I'll report back.

Scotsgun..

Wasn't having a go Jenks. What i was trying to do was make the point that under the conditions on most ranges, practically every rifle produced today is capable of such groups BUT was that group formed at exactly the point of aim and could you do it again and again?.....remember, you can only say yes if that group forms at exactly the point to which you intended it.

Scotsgun..

That group measured .189'' So no i haven't ever produced such a tiny group again. was it exactly where I aimed . No I was zeroing the rifle so it wasn't important where the shots landed what was important was that the three shots formed a group of sufficiently moderate size to facilitate adjustment of the sights. I more normally shoot groups like this.




Pretty average, but most of the shots went almost exactly where I aimed. And for sure would account for a deer out to 200+ yards

I maintain that the first principles of good marksmanship (leaving aside all the safety stuff) is the ability to consistently produce tight groups from all the usual shooting positions. Shot placement, the ability to judge range etc etc can all be taught later. The confidence of being able to produce good tight groups is in my opinion the best aid to becoming a competent rifleman.

Jenks

Jenks do you know which were your first or last 3 rounds on each target?? and when zeroing do you fire 5 or 10 round groups? before making any adjustments???? I ask as I do this all the time and looking at your targets here,,,good shooting by the way,,,,have a look at your hold,,,the other thing I would look at is snatching the trigger a little bit,,,thats why I ask about your first three or last three rounds....you may know different,,,but am I right to a degree???
By the way not trying to teach you to suck eggs here....