Scottish Airgun Licensing

[Blu]

Afraid to say that stories such as this doesn't help the case against the licensing of airguns in Scotland.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/n ... -1-3347422

Blu

[saddler]

Nice SSPCA propaganda article

No dates supplied & not heard about this on the local news (yet)
Chances are more cats were run over on Edinburgh roads in the same time frame as the above happened...but a car running over a cat is not "human interest"

I wonder when the media will mention the widespread RSPCA/SSPCA policy of destroying healthy dogs that are not collected/re-homed within their narrow time frame?
Oh, but that'd not meet the MEEDJA's own box-ticking agenda - the only negative stories are the ones we choose to print - and the top of the meedja hitlist is guns = always guaranteed to sell a few more copies = more profit

[Blu]

Nice SSPCA propaganda article

No dates supplied & not heard about this on the local news (yet)
Chances are more cats were run over on Edinburgh roads in the same time frame as the above happened...but a car running over a cat is not "human interest"

I wonder when the media will mention the widespread RSPCA/SSPCA policy of destroying healthy dogs that are not collected/re-homed within their narrow time frame?
Oh, but that'd not meet the MEEDJA's own box-ticking agenda - the only negative stories are the ones we choose to print - and the top of the meedja hitlist is guns = always guaranteed to sell a few more copies = more profit

Saddler, thing is mate a car running over a cat is usually accidental. This was deliberate, hey I understand where you are coming from on the SSPCA time frames given that there are shelters out there with no kill policies towards the animals.

Thing is though, this was a deliberate act and it was committed with an airgun. $h1t such as this does nothing to help any case against licensing. it just plays right into the hands of the antis and the Scottish government who want these laws. You can write and talk about cars killing cats and SSPCA kill polices all you want, it doesn't detract from the fact this was a deliberate act by some numpty with an airgun made worse by the fact it's made the papers.

There is just no excusing it, if anything and as much as I hate to say it mate, it's a damn good reason for the licensing of airguns if it keeps them out of the hands of numpties who use them in this way.

Blu

[saddler]

As is: an idiot has used a now legally held item to break the law
Under an Airgun Licence: the legally held item would still be legally held...IF said numpty had a licence....yet their illegal use of it is the same = to commit an offence that would still be an illegal act of causing suffering to the animal irrespective of what tool they used to inflict harm to the animal.

Making it illegal to drive a car when drunk did not end the death toll on the roads caused by such drunk drivers, it purely made the offence of drink-driving appear on the books

Your argument is the thin end of the wedge toward a complete ban - which is the known SNP aim for gun in Scotland - and is exactly what they want to hear from the public: same as the US lobby groups that label those evil black rifles as THE sole cause of gun deaths in the USA, when the FBI's own statistics show that nothing could be further from the truth

[Blu]

Saddler.

Your argument is the thin end of the wedge toward a complete ban

Yes but it's that "thin edge of the wedge" that's going to be used to licence them or completely ban them. There is a very good chance, I'd say 99.9%, that the scrote who committed this crime would either be too young to get a licence or if old enough wouldn't pass the background checks to get one. It's because of people like these that this is all happening in the first place.

Look lets get something clear here right off, I am totally against the licensing of airguns in Scotland or anywhere in the UK. But I can understand why the public would be all for it when they read or hear of deliberate acts of cruelty such as this. When I read that story there was four comments from the public, I wonder how many of them own an airgun or a firearm, most of them read "airgun" read the story and that's their mind made up. So yeah I understand what you are saying with regards to Drunk Driving and black rifles, but let me ask you this. In the airgun target shooting/hunting fraternity do you think there are many if any who would commit a deliberate act such as this?

When I say " it's a damn good reason for the licensing of airguns if it keeps them out of the hands of numpties" I say that because most of the scrotes who do stuff like this wouldn't get a licence in the first place IMO.

Blu

[FencepostError]

While I can see that airgun licensing might reduce the incidence of this type of offence committed with airguns, it seems a stretch to claim that it would actually reduce the incidence of animal cruelty, given the number of other ways of inflicting the same or greater harm than is possible with a 12ftlb airgun.

Unfortunately, public debate nowadays seems to consist mainly of emotive soundbites.

[Demonic69]

I'm all for licensing air rifles, next they can do golf clubs!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -room.html
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... er-2796660
I'm sure they're responsible for more deaths than air guns. Next up, kitchen knives, cars (not the poxy scheme we have now), alcohol, parents, gravity, winter, summer, all sports etc.

[Blu]

While I can see that airgun licensing might reduce the incidence of this type of offence committed with airguns, it seems a stretch to claim that it would actually reduce the incidence of animal cruelty, given the number of other ways of inflicting the same or greater harm than is possible with a 12ftlb airgun.

Unfortunately, public debate nowadays seems to consist mainly of emotive soundbites.

Yes but we are not discussing other ways of committing acts of animal cruelty, we are discussing acts committed with airguns. They are trying for the registration or banning not because of other ways animals are treated cruelly. Like I said I am against the registration or banning of airguns. However something does need to be done, in the last couple of months I have read of a kid being shot at with an airgun and having two pellets removed from her leg, a woman who lost an eye because of an airgun fired at her, that and numerous acts of animal cruelty with airguns, all in Scotland alone.

Code: Select all

Unfortunately, public debate nowadays seems to consist mainly of emotive soundbites

Well as a long time firearms owner I assure you that is not the case here. People and animals are being injured by people who shouldn't have a potato gun let alone an airgun and as a result, they are going to be at the very worst banned and once again it's the law abiding that will suffer. So you tell me friend, what's the answer?

At the very best I think short of complete registration, some type of background check and security of said airguns, not perfect but it's a start.

Blu

[Blu]

I'm all for licensing air rifles, next they can do golf clubs!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -room.html
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... er-2796660
I'm sure they're responsible for more deaths than air guns. Next up, kitchen knives, cars (not the poxy scheme we have now), alcohol, parents, gravity, winter, summer, all sports etc.

We are not talking about golf clubs, knives, cars, booze or anything else. We are talking about something that will affect a certain group of the law abiding shooting community. I'm sorry but the reasons you give above are BS IMHO. While it may be true what you state, that argument isn't going to help the law abiding airgun sportsmen in any way.

What the law abiding airgun section of the shooting community needs is solutions, not arguments such as you state above.

Blu

[Demonic69]

There are no other solutions that will be acceptable to the media, general public or those with an axe to grind.
I gave no reasons, no arguments, I don't get the point you're trying to make. So trolling for a fight ain't gonna work :P

I actually wouldn't mind if air guns were licensed, so long as the process was kept simple, cost effective, expedient and dealt with in a timely manner. I doubt that's possible in this country but you never know. That could go towards helping law abiding shooters in the pursuit of their sport or hindering them, time will only tell. It's not something that should ever have to be discussed IMHO, unfortunately we've degenerated as a nation over the last 3 generations or so. Hurting animals is banned, hurting people is banned, going after the tools is just a placation-measure when you can't tackle the real issue.
The difference between the UK and the States (some, not all) and other, potentially more "reponsible" countries is more personal and can't be tackled with rules and restrictions. Respect can't be bred into these half-wits overnight so something else needs to be done and we only have 2 speeds over here, glacial and knee-jerk.
I'm not entirely sure how the police are expected to handle the thousands, possibly millions of illegally held air guns after the changes though.