Mercer & NRA Against Reloading

[ovenpaa]

As an organisation, we dont do ourselves any favours.

We hear of the odd incident, but to date (as an RO) I have never had anything rammed down my throat in terms off accident/incident reports.

<snip>

This implies that they might have been avoided had actions been different. There are a lot less people shooting in the UK, so its mutch easier these days to disseminate info. This would cut out heresay, and introduce fact.

Perhaps a passworded ROs/RFDs portal on the website....when they get the current one smoothed out of course.

I would 100% agree with and support a formal process for advising RFD's, club secretary's and similar of incidents and 'near misses' I am not aware of any such process for disseminating information regarding potential failures and more to the point when they are discussed in the public domain through mediums such as forums the information is vague at best. I inspect every single firearm that passes through my hands however I do not do have access to X-Ray or advanced crack detecting process and some of the older firearms I see have 100 years of grime and patina and the owner often does not want to see, nor pay for the the firearm to be scrupulously cleaned therefore I have to carry out the work and return the firearm 'As is'

We have an 8x58RD Krag and a similar firearm was the subject of a recent incident and investigation ans as such has been banned from use at Bisley. Quite why does not appear to have been published so I have no views on the mode of failure or what to look for and right now I am not sure if such information will ever be fully revealed. The downside of this is if I had not read of the article somewhere I would not have known and could well have rocked up to a club shoot somewhere and taken a sizeable lump of my head off dspite this being a 'known' or at least reported issue.

[karen]

Read AGM minutes - might answer some of the questions!

http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/genera ... ategory=13

Not sure why they haven't been advertised in the News section and are hidden away in the downloads?

[Dougan]

Very interesting (and not just about the loading issue), thanks Karen - As a member I really should make more effort to read this stuff...

[JonC]

And thanks to Karen from me, just reading all the 2014 stuff myself. Interesting the point that's repeatedly made that there's more to the NRA and Bisley than TR, and that the "action" disciplines are here to stay and are seen in a positive light. Seems a big jump from a few years ago.

[JonC]

General Council minutes 01 March 2014 have some interesting points

Various safety issues were raised including the breech explosion at Kingsbury, with a report
submitted to MoD. The conclusion reached was that an error with hand loaded ammunition was
the cause.

The trend causing most concern is every recent case has been as a result of hand loaded
ammunition. It was felt that education is needed.

Access to ETRs has seen some discussion with DLRSC and an agreement, subject to final
confirmation has been reached that NRA RCOs are qualified to run ETRs.

Karen Robertson brought up that a rumour has been started on the Fullbore forum that a club has
been told that all civilian clubs can no longer use ETRs on military ranges. KR asked if there was
any truth in the fact that the NRA and MoD have been in discussions.
AM confirmed that there was no truth in the rumours.

[Maggot]

General Council minutes 01 March 2014 have some interesting points

Various safety issues were raised including the breech explosion at Kingsbury, with a report
submitted to MoD. The conclusion reached was that an error with hand loaded ammunition was
the cause.

The trend causing most concern is every recent case has been as a result of hand loaded
ammunition. It was felt that education is needed.

Access to ETRs has seen some discussion with DLRSC and an agreement, subject to final
confirmation has been reached that NRA RCOs are qualified to run ETRs.

Karen Robertson brought up that a rumour has been started on the Fullbore forum that a club has
been told that all civilian clubs can no longer use ETRs on military ranges. KR asked if there was
any truth in the fact that the NRA and MoD have been in discussions.
AM confirmed that there was no truth in the rumours.

Perhaps if something was done to recognise past qualifications gained in service it may give them some peace of mind.

Personaly I dont pay much attention to the "and on the 8th day god woke up with a hangover and created me...a living legend" Brigade, but just occasionally it counts for something

[Maggot]

General Council minutes 01 March 2014 have some interesting points

Various safety issues were raised including the breech explosion at Kingsbury, with a report
submitted to MoD. The conclusion reached was that an error with hand loaded ammunition was
the cause.

Outstanding Jon, and that is exactly my point? What error? How can I change my procedures to avoid it?

Do I need to change?

What "exactly" caused it mate? What evidence caused them to arrive at that conclusion? Will the MOD/NRA share this nugget with those of us who NEED to know?

They dont need to tell us whoe where or when, that is irelevant, just that X occurred, evidence points to the cause being Y, we recommend Z.

Its borderline negligent not to do so in my opinion.

I am afraid that in accident prevention the only crime greater than ignorance or neglegence is not preventing a potential accident by educating those potentially affected :cool2:

Info sharing is too easy these days, there is no excuse for not doing so.

[kennyc]

General Council minutes 01 March 2014 have some interesting points

Various safety issues were raised including the breech explosion at Kingsbury, with a report
submitted to MoD. The conclusion reached was that an error with hand loaded ammunition was
the cause.

Outstanding Jon, and that is exactly my point? What error? How can I change my procedures to avoid it?

Do I need to change?

What "exactly" caused it mate? What evidence caused them to arrive at that conclusion? Will the MOD/NRA share this nugget with those of us who NEED to know?

They dont need to tell us whoe where or when, that is irelevant, just that X occurred, evidence points to the cause being Y, we recommend Z.

Its borderline negligent not to do so in my opinion.

I am afraid that in accident prevention the only crime greater than ignorance or neglegence is not preventing a potential accident by educating those potentially affected :cool2:

Info sharing is too easy these days, there is no excuse for not doing so.

it hurts but I'm going to have to agree with the wriggley one on this clapclap clapclap

[Matt]

General Council minutes 01 March 2014 have some interesting points

Various safety issues were raised including the breech explosion at Kingsbury, with a report
submitted to MoD. The conclusion reached was that an error with hand loaded ammunition was
the cause.

Outstanding Jon, and that is exactly my point? What error? How can I change my procedures to avoid it?

Do I need to change?

What "exactly" caused it mate? What evidence caused them to arrive at that conclusion? Will the MOD/NRA share this nugget with those of us who NEED to know?

They dont need to tell us whoe where or when, that is irelevant, just that X occurred, evidence points to the cause being Y, we recommend Z.

Its borderline negligent not to do so in my opinion.

I am afraid that in accident prevention the only crime greater than ignorance or neglegence is not preventing a potential accident by educating those potentially affected :cool2:

Info sharing is too easy these days, there is no excuse for not doing so.

it hurts but I'm going to have to agree with the wriggley one on this clapclap clapclap

Fight through the pain and promise never to do it again tongueout

[Dougan]

I can't see a problem with some sort of loading certification...especially if it helps maintain access to MOD ranges.

To teach people to actually reload would be long-winded and difficult to set up, but a simple 'awareness' course wouldn't be hard to organise...

...a couple of hours of theory; explaining some of the basics like SAAMI specs, head-space and how ammunition fits a chamber ect...and some do's and don'ts, going into things like OAL, compressed loads, crimping ect...

...show some examples of when loading has gone wrong; buggered actions etc..,

...then a quick test to prove you were listening, and a signature to acknowledge you understand the responsibilities of loading your own.

Some reading materials could be sent out to beginners so the course doesn't have to be too long, and so that the content is detailed enough that people who've been loading for years could still get something out of it...

...apart from taking care of some liability issues and appeasing the MOD, it could even help some to follow best practice and prevent incidents in the future.