Electronic Targets at Bisley

[Pete]

I've bore sighted allegedly sighted in rifles at 600yds which were way off zero, and obtained either first round hits, or falls on the bank within the upper and lower limits of the target board. In the latter case, marker feedback enabled windage adjustment to get a second round hit.
I've also used the zero range. Both methods work for me.
Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "walking a shot in" ? Obviously, bore sighting gets you closer than just taking a shot to see where it lands.

Pete

[hitchphil]

I've bore sighted allegedly sighted in rifles at 600yds which were way off zero, and obtained either first round hits, or falls on the bank within the upper and lower limits of the target board. In the latter case, marker feedback enabled windage adjustment to get a second round hit.
I've also used the zero range. Both methods work for me.
Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "walking a shot in" ? Obviously, bore sighting gets you closer than just taking a shot to see where it lands.

Pete

Hi Pete - ............ apart from having no marker on the electronic targets to even report the fall of shot, a hit on the frame may destroy the detectors, the frames are fair bit smaller than the manual ones too & as Rox points out Bisley footprint is a limited danger area range & a hit in the sand off target might be a ricochet or a fragment.

Its generally accepted amongst target shooters that you zero to 600 on the zero range then prove the other distances (splits the error if you start at 600) using the standard rises or falls. Then go play out on the range & refine your elevations per ammo type & some per butt (because of different FP angles). Many CSR & classic shooters too have reliable elevations some & a few TR's am afraid dont.

I too can get hits by bore sighting but am afraid many cant. (but i would only do that at 300 max because of drop 13moa at 600yds) So they fire a shot & ask any indication till they get a sand splash, (i have been in the butts & i the indications with out seeing a sand splash are total guesses!) then they get on target. Those first 2-3 shots might be over the top, ricochets going over the top, bounce backs off the mantle thru the numbers. Those are reckless shots & I & others as an RCO's will intervene if we see it.

The limited danger area contains 99.99% etc of ricochets etc but not negligent over the top or bounce backs. Its just takes 1 shot thru a kitchen window in Lightwater or Donkey town (yes there is a place called that!) & the ranges could be suspended, the NRA's Safe Shooting Certification called into question (as many do already) & other shooting on other MOD danger area ranges stopped too!. NB MOD own the Bisley danger area its their responsibility even if we use it, but they will make sure that is attributed to us if they can...to date its been the other way round the Pirbright ranges have been identified as the only possible source of a stray round outside the danger area. but am sure there have been some from Century - just not seen or found.

I have been on 300yds with scouts made the all lay down because of ricochets bouncing back over our heads & called in the range office on the radio. The ranges stop, then RO staff came out & checked. Exactly as suspected somebody with -10moa at 600 hitting the front of mantle! kicked off to the Zero range & seriously warned.

When the ranges become all electronics NRA may have to implement a form of enforced zeroing?

This happening on an MOD range other than Bisley has more serious implications for clubs. But those ranges tend to be run as a tight ship & the wardens can intervene too. Bisley is a bit more open & less observed, but please shooters be aware Bisley NRA Range Office have more staff & do now patrol & will do so more. So people with un-notified muzzle breaks etc will be kicked off & observed indiscriminate shooting stopped & repeated misses too.

[Airbrush]

I've bore sighted allegedly sighted in rifles at 600yds which were way off zero, and obtained either first round hits, or falls on the bank within the upper and lower limits of the target board. In the latter case, marker feedback enabled windage adjustment to get a second round hit.
I've also used the zero range. Both methods work for me.
Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "walking a shot in" ? Obviously, bore sighting gets you closer than just taking a shot to see where it lands.

Pete

Hi Pete - ............ apart from having no marker on the electronic targets to even report the fall of shot, a hit on the frame may destroy the detectors, the frames are fair bit smaller than the manual ones too & as Rox points out Bisley footprint is a limited danger area range & a hit in the sand off target might be a ricochet or a fragment.

Its generally accepted amongst target shooters that you zero to 600 on the zero range then prove the other distances (splits the error if you start at 600) using the standard rises or falls. Then go play out on the range & refine your elevations per ammo type & some per butt (because of different FP angles). Many CSR & classic shooters too have reliable elevations some & a few TR's am afraid dont.

I too can get hits by bore sighting but am afraid many cant. (but i would only do that at 300 max because of drop 13moa at 600yds) So they fire a shot & ask any indication till they get a sand splash, (i have been in the butts & i the indications with out seeing a sand splash are total guesses!) then they get on target. Those first 2-3 shots might be over the top, ricochets going over the top, bounce backs off the mantle thru the numbers. Those are reckless shots & I & others as an RCO's will intervene if we see it.

The limited danger area contains 99.99% etc of ricochets etc but not negligent over the top or bounce backs. Its just takes 1 shot thru a kitchen window in Lightwater or Donkey town (yes there is a place called that!) & the ranges could be suspended, the NRA's Safe Shooting Certification called into question (as many do already) & other shooting on other MOD danger area ranges stopped too!. NB MOD own the Bisley danger area its their responsibility even if we use it, but they will make sure that is attributed to us if they can...to date its been the other way round the Pirbright ranges have been identified as the only possible source of a stray round outside the danger area. but am sure there have been some from Century - just not seen or found.

I have been on 300yds with scouts made the all lay down because of ricochets bouncing back over our heads & called in the range office on the radio. The ranges stop, then RO staff came out & checked. Exactly as suspected somebody with -10moa at 600 hitting the front of mantle! kicked off to the Zero range & seriously warned.

When the ranges become all electronics NRA may have to implement a form of enforced zeroing?

This happening on an MOD range other than Bisley has more serious implications for clubs. But those ranges tend to be run as a tight ship & the wardens can intervene too. Bisley is a bit more open & less observed, but please shooters be aware Bisley NRA Range Office have more staff & do now patrol & will do so more. So people with un-notified muzzle breaks etc will be kicked off & observed indiscriminate shooting stopped & repeated misses too.

[Maggot]

All electronic eh....good luck with that then.

CSR will be a giggle.

If the kit sulks (as it will) there could be soem interesting issues on large comps, particularly where people have invested large amounts of money or travelled long distances.

[Pete]

I'm already well aware of all the point's Hitchphil/Rox has made, particularly the disaster that a round going through Worried of Lightwaters' bathroom window would unleash, and I would also add that using the electronics without a known zero could be extremely expensive, as the errant shooter would definitely be billed for the damage..........

Coming back to boresighting at 600yds..........I think it's a good idea, once the appropriate elevation/windage adjustments have been made to the sight, to centre the sight aperture (or reticule) on the target by adjusting the position of the rifle, secure the rifle so that it can't move, and squint up the bore once more. Without touching the rifle, check that the sights are still centred, and then take yet another look up the bore.
If you can see sand and/or the top edge of the target frame while the sights are centred on the target, then it's unlikely that your round will go over the top.
However, if you can see sky or trees through the muzzle, you have screwed up bigtime somewhere......do NOT take a shot, seek advice, or pack up and head for the zero range..........

Pete

[hitchphil]

All electronic eh....good luck with that then.

CSR will be a giggle.

If the kit sulks (as it will) there could be soem interesting issues on large comps, particularly where people have invested large amounts of money or travelled long distances.

your all full of the positive waves Maggot ;-) one day in a galaxy not that far off, the entire range will be electronic targets and the rules of use will change.

[Chapuis]

I regularly set up scopes on sporting rifles and usually bore sight at 100 yards then check by firing a few shots at 25 yards before zeroing again at 100 yards. I consider myself fairly competent at bore sighting with very often the first shot within an inch or so at 100 yards.
I'll be blunt and say that I wouldn't be happy with anyone bore sighting at 600 yards or walking shots onto the target. If I were RCO I'm afraid that I would be sending the shooter away to the zero range.

[Maggot]

All electronic eh....good luck with that then.

CSR will be a giggle.

If the kit sulks (as it will) there could be soem interesting issues on large comps, particularly where people have invested large amounts of money or travelled long distances.

your all full of the positive waves Maggot ;-) one day in a galaxy not that far off, the entire range will be electronic targets and the rules of use will change.

And you will still need markers to confirm what the targetry is telling you, particularly in comps where kissing the line gives you a higher score.

I have already seen several people let down by electronic targets, both this system and SARTS. They require the sort of testing and maintenance that the NRA occasionally struggle to provide for mechnical targets, let alone more complex electronic ones.

I have been round ranges since about 7 years old, and the good old bullet hole takes some arguing with...many do but there you go. I accept that the electronic systems have their place, particularly when someone may be off target but still within the sensors foot print.

It is possible for a single marker to operate a second target if needs be, but a dead electronic target is just that...dead. So on arriving for a short range load test, after a reasonable journey, I find the bloody thing is tits up...... Currently no drama, the worst that can happen is rain or a jammed frame.

Its a bit much putting all of your eggs in one electronic basket....is it being done nationally anywhere else? Can you see how an international shooter may be a tad put out WHEN the thing fails?

No mate, I work with technology and I know what it takes when it goes wrong, let alaone keeping it going when it is not quite right.....real life, not another galaxy.

Regarding "Walking rounds in".....Hells bells....

Walking rounds in refers to watching splash/swirl to bring a "weapon" "ON" to a target. Traditionally it is used on figure, reactive or "central mass" targets without witness screens amd markers, where hits only are recorded.

I use the W word as it is a (not exclusively) military technique used as the "Miss" part of "Aiming off and miss drills", usually commencing after aiming low, spotting ground splash and correcting equal and opposite (walking the splash onto the target) until the (Usually) reactive target goes down. I get bore sighting for use at close range, with large witness screens, but using it as a technique on a limited danger area template is your call. Personally I would get a good windage and base elevation on the zero range, then apply the correct math to get me on a witness screen at further ranges, not play shoot the local on Century.

[Quarters]

Doesn't matter anyway.

The NRA website says they are down until further notice.

[Maggot]

Doesn't matter anyway.

The NRA website says they are down until further notice.

As they are likely to be on a regular basis. Its a shame because for some applications they are a good idea, but for comps.....not convinced.