Vortex Razor HDII or Kahles?

[Viper]

Interesting replies, thank you. I think I will continue on my previous thoughtline for the Razor. My next challenge is what to do for mounts on my Steyr Mannlicher Pro Varmint. Any suggestions please?

[HALODIN]

Interesting response. What made you go for the razor when the majority seemed to favour the Khales? Also if you're just going against the grain on this, how do you know we didn't set you up? When my son asks whether he should have the blue or the red t-shirt, he always chooses the opposite of my suggestion, so I use that against him.

Interesting replies, thank you. I think I will continue on my previous thoughtline for the Razor. My next challenge is what to do for mounts on my Steyr Mannlicher Pro Varmint. Any suggestions please?

[Viper]

Interesting response. What made you go for the razor when the majority seemed to favour the Khales? Also if you're just going against the grain on this, how do you know we didn't set you up? When my son asks whether he should have the blue or the red t-shirt, he always chooses the opposite of my suggestion, so I use that against him.

Interesting replies, thank you. I think I will continue on my previous thoughtline for the Razor. My next challenge is what to do for mounts on my Steyr Mannlicher Pro Varmint. Any suggestions please?

Very fair point. I had also asked on a US site and they were more swaying to either the Razor or suggesting fairly equal clarity but with the added benefits of the focal range and warranty back up. There was also someone who had both and could notice no difference in glass clarity (subjective I know).

Some who said Kahles above Vortex seem to be speaking with no experience of the Vortex, however Meles mentioned they would be equal in good light with the Kahles having the edge in low light. With the way I shoot low light wouldn't have much of an effect on me as my majority would be range use. At which point it would then go down to the personal preferences on the scopes and I love the look of the Vortex and the others mentioned previously.

[HALODIN]

Fair enough, I had to ask and I fully understand. I'm pretty much the same, once I set my heart on something, it's almost a done deal.

Very fair point. I had also asked on a US site and they were more swaying to either the Razor or suggesting fairly equal clarity but with the added benefits of the focal range and warranty back up. There was also someone who had both and could notice no difference in glass clarity (subjective I know).

Some who said Kahles above Vortex seem to be speaking with no experience of the Vortex, however Meles mentioned they would be equal in good light with the Kahles having the edge in low light. With the way I shoot low light wouldn't have much of an effect on me as my majority would be range use. At which point it would then go down to the personal preferences on the scopes and I love the look of the Vortex and the others mentioned previously.

[HALODIN]

I've just had a quick look to compare both and pulled out the following stats -

## Kahles K624i 6-24×56 ##
Magnification 6-24
Obj. lens diameter (mm) 56 mm
Exit pupil diameter (mm) 9.3 - 2.3
Field of view (ft/100yd) 20.0 - 5.1 feet/100 yards
Eye relief (inch) 3.54
Diopter compensition (dpt) +2/-3.5 dpt
Parallax adjustment (m) 50m > infinity
Impact corr. per click .1 Mil / .25 MOA (1/4 MOA)
Elevation 25 Mil / 88 MOA (in just two rotations)
Windage 11 Mil / 38 MOA
Tube diameter (mm) 34
Length (inch) 15.9 inches
Weight L (oz) 33.5 oz *
Reticle MOAK, SKMR 1, SKMR 2, SKMR 3, MSRK, AMR
Illuminated Yes
Focal plane First = FFP
Illuminated: yes
Twilight factor: 18.3 - 36.7 DIN 58388
Construction: hardened steel
Zero Stop: refined
Warranty: 10 Years

## Vortex Razor HDII 4.5-27x56 ##
Magnification 4.5-27
Objective Lens Diameter 56 mm
Eye Relief 3.7 inches *
Field of View 25.3-4.4 feet/100 yards
Tube Size 34 mm
Turret Style L-Tec
Adjustment Graduation .1 MRAD
Travel per Rotation 10 MRAD
Max Elevation Adjustment 33 MRAD (113 moa)
Max Windage Adjustment 14 MRAD
Parallax Setting 32 yards to infinity
Length 14.4 inches
Weight 48.5 ounces
Construction: aluminium
Warranty: Fully transferable Unlimited Lifetime Warranty


There's a few notable differences -

1) Vortex is 31% (.52kg) heavier than Khales despite being 9.4% shorter.
2) More rotations to reach full elevation on Vortex, but the Vortex has 22% more adjustable elevation than the Khales.
3) The Vortex has a 6x (27/4.5) multiplier and the Khales has a 4x (24/6) multiplier.
4) FOV 21% better on Vortex

With reference to no.3, can someone explain to me the technical implications of the different multipliers (4 or 6) and the effect that can have on the scope/glass please? I know a higher multiplier lets you see further... but I thought there was more to it.

Anyone?

[HALODIN]

Yeh I just noticed that, it's .52kg heavier.

they are very heavy though...........

[Viper]

I had read about the extra weight of them and they're definitely a beefy scope! I wouldn't be shooting without a rest or carrying for long periods of time so that doesn't worry me; fortunately! I can definitely see that being a big turn off for people though.

[HALODIN]

It's personal choice, if it doesn't bother you then it's not a problem.

I had read about the extra weight of them and they're definitely a beefy scope! I wouldn't be shooting without a rest or carrying for long periods of time so that doesn't worry me; fortunately! I can definitely see that being a big turn off for people though.

[HALODIN]

To put it another way - which scope is technically better out of each of the following pairs and why?

5-20x56 - x4 multiplier/zoom
4-20x56 - x5 multiplier/zoom

8-24x56 - x3 multiplier/zoom
6-24x56 - x4 multiplier/zoom

3) The Vortex has a 6x (27/4.5) multiplier and the Khales has a 4x (24/6) multiplier.

With reference to no.3, can someone explain to me the technical implications of the different multipliers (4 or 6) and the effect that can have on the scope/glass please? I know a higher multiplier lets you see further... but I thought there was more to it.

Anyone?

[Mezzer]

Warranty back up has been mentioned a couple of times to support the choice of Vortex scopes. I guess that this level of service support can only be realised when something goes wrong and the product has to be returned.

I have a Kahles scope on top of my rifle and it really is superb. If anyone thinks for a moment that a company like Kahles, which is one of the oldest scope makers in Europe and has a fine reputation to boot isn't going to honour any warranty claims made against it, then I think you are sadly mistaken. I have only heard of one case where a Kahles scope went wrong (something to do with the reticle) and the equipment was immediately replaced with no questions asked.

Scopes at this level are expensive and I would fully expect the warranties offered to be rock solid. As such, equipment selection can only be down to personal requirements such as focal plane, glass quality and required magnification etc.

I also selected the Kahles on the basis that it is European so theoretically, if there were any problems with the scope and it had to be returned to the maker, I could avoid any of that ITAR related nonsense on the other side of the pond.

Mezzer