Lead bullets and leading of barrels

[EDP]

I read in my one calibre load book (and a couple of loading manuals) about not charging my .357mag loads so that they are above approx 1000fps in order to avoid the problem of leading the barrel of my rifle - but my load data from my 45-70 Gov't one cal load book (and my other manuals) for lead bullets will provide well above that fps. I am confused? Is it the ratio between bullet weight/calibre/fps that poses the problem with the .357mag but not with the 45-70?

[meles meles]

Evenin' EDP. You might be wondering why we've turned up to comment on your thread. It's 'cos you've opened a real can of worms. If you're confused now, just wait until this thread grows legs. All sorts of dodgy characters will be along to chip in with their two penn'orth: some of them will know what they're talking about and others will have strongly held opinions. Harken to the porij monster, separate the wheat from the chaff and don't get too hung up on scientific rigour...

[Alpha1]

Not really its just basic stuff.

Im sure Adam will educate the gentleman.

[dromia]

It is all very simple, firstly don't believe all that you read.

Secondly good bullet fit, start at around 2 thou over groove diameter or to fit the chamber mouth in revolvers assuming that they are larger than the groove diameter as they should be.

Thirdly a soft alloy.

Fourthly a decent lube.

Obviously the humble .22 RF hasn't read the articles you have as it seems to perform at a variety of velocities without leading.

Jacket bullets foul far more than lead.

Plenty of in-depth discussion on shooting proper bullets on here that a diligent search will reveal. When you have filled your boots reading then you may have some questions specific to what you wish to do.

[dromia]

BTW those one calibre load books are like the Lee books not really worth the money as all they do is collect and copy data from other sources rather than actually test the loads like decent manual publishers have done. They also copy the original errors and then throw in a few of their own, they are just a waste of money. First source for data should be the powder manufacturers as they have a very vested interest in ensuing safe loads are developed for us, second get a manual that has actual tested loads in it and preferably isn't a bullet manufacturers manual as they tend to be limited to their bullets.

[dromia]

On the subject of data sources I subscribe to and find very useful Wolfe Publishing's online "LoadData". It is a comprehensive collection of load data, including the veritable cornucopia of data generated over the years by the contributors to the Handloader magazine, it is regularly added to, kept up to date and is very searchable by powder, source, cartridge, cast, jacketed, etc. etc. For people like myself who load a multiplicity of cartridges and are continually adding new ones to the collection it is well worth the $30US a year subscription.

If I could only have one manual then it would be the Lyman, powder manufacturers data is of course free and the bedrock of all other data.

[dromia]

don't get too hung up on scientific rigour...

Glad that you see the importance of art over alchemy.

[andrew375]

As said above the key is bullet fit. Slug your barrel (plenty of tutorials out there) and get it measured, that means a micrometer not a caliper! If in doubt don't size your bullets. I shoot several thousand plain base cast bullets per year through a variety of firearms, slowest load (.44 mag. 250 swc) is 1360 fps. I shoot a 280gr. plain base in the .375 H&H at 1700 fps and that groups them in just over .6 moa.

Most commercially cast bullets are too hard, being cast from type metal alloy. Also they are sized to the accepted nominal size for the calibre, like .311" for .303, which in most cases is way to small.

Good sources of up to date information are the Lyman cast bullet manual and, if you can find them, Wolfe publishing's Cast bullet annuals. Also, check out the cast bullet forums on the Gunloads site.

If you are looking at loading the .45-70 then you need the books by Paul A. Matthews, published by Wolfe.

[EDP]

Lots of interesting info and opinions folks, many thanks.

I'm already loading 400gr Speer JFN into Winchester cases using 28gr of AA 5744. I tried 28.5 & 29gr but so far preferred the smaller load, just on the feel as it fires - I've a metal-repaired spine so the feel is as important as the accuracy at first, I'm thinking I can then refine my loads. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree in the wrong field but I'm kinda hoping that varying the COAL up to or down to the max/min/anywhere in between from my starting length, varying the load by tenths of a grain, trying different makes of primers (tho this one seems least likely to help) might assist in getting as good accuracy as poss without doing my shoulder/neck/spine in?

I'm interested in this leading thing because I only found it mentioned with regards to .357 (the next cartridge I wish to learn to load) but I'm very keen to load some hard cast lead 405gr bullets instead of the Speer 400s. I've since found info in other places that mentions that the use of hard cast bullets pretty much negates any concerns about leading - and that it's primarily an issue with using soft lead bullets. This may or may not be good info, especially after reading the above comments, very interested to hear from you all about this.

I am taking loading bit by bit and don't wish to start casting my own bullets yet. I feel that there's enough to learn about careful and safe, productive hand-loading before I add the process of making my own bullets because, though I've been shooting my hand-loads safely, without incident/misfires/scattershot grouping at Hythe and Lydd ranges, I've still got a way to go before I would be confident attributing any problems with a specific process of loading. Adding the manufacture of my own bullets on top of this straight away will slow down my learning. Though I will def be up for casting my own bullets in the future.

Lastly, the.357mag rounds I am going to start on next - I want to use the PPU copper-jacketed bullets in the PPU cases (as I find their factory rounds are great in my lever action) so I won't have any leading issues anyway with that calibre, but I'd be very interested in your suggestions re: powders and primers to get as accurate as I can with them?

[FredB]

You don't appear to have read what Dromia said above. Leading is caused by undersized hard cast bullets---soft is better in a rifle. Much of the handed down knowledge comes from ex-pistol shooters who were concerned with soft bullets "setting up" in the throats of their revolvers and causing lead spitting and lead plated forcing cones. Rifles are different. Your jacketed bullets will cause copper fouling which is much more difficult to remove than lead.
Fred