Section 11 Query

[Racalman]

One of my clubs opened their indoor range to the public as a miniature rifle range during a carnival. It was a good little earner.

If you run one of these ranges as a business you don't need an FAC to buy the rifles or ammunition but I imagine you'd have a hard time persuading an RFD to supply you.

[Chapuis]

One of my clubs opened their indoor range to the public as a miniature rifle range during a carnival. It was a good little earner.

If you run one of these ranges as a business you don't need an FAC to buy the rifles or ammunition but I imagine you'd have a hard time persuading an RFD to supply you.

Perhaps it's just the way you wrote it, or it's the way that I read it but why "as a business" Racalman?

There are a good many miniature rifle clubs in existence which aren't businesses. Indeed I believe that the NRA operate Cheylesmore as a miniature rifle range. Like you say though convincing RFDs that you are operating a miniature rifle range and don't need to hold a FAC to possess .22" rifles or ammunition may be just a bit of a problem and that is why some clubs have been issued with FACs by their local constabularies. I suppose that in theory they could simply produce a letter to the RFD confirming their status much the same as the forestry commission do when purchasing firearms and ammunition.

[Rockhopper]

There was talk recently of them plugging this loophole although nothing has happened yet.

[redcat]

Last time I encountered a mobile .22 range was at a military vehicle show, they had one built into a lorry trailer, guns were 10-22 and the S&W 15-22.

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Might be the same outfit that was at the Northern Shooting Show last year?

Redcat

[saddler]

The traditional fun fair .22 ranges I've seen in the past tended to use .22cb caps or .22short type ammo, usually with acorn headstamp, rather than .22lr ammo....NOT that the latter would be excluded from the exemption.
Possibly more a cost/safety factor.

[Swamp Donkey]

Still a pub league running in Devizes. Several pubs still have tube ranges. Also a miniature range in Potterne. And i do believe there is one on Bodmin.

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[Chapuis]

There was talk recently of them plugging this loophole although nothing has happened yet.

Yes there has been some discussion so I understand about changing the law regarding miniature rifle ranges, but I wish that people wouldn't refer to it as a loophole in the law.
When this perfectly legitimate system was set up in the early 1900s it was mainly with the purpose of encouraging civilian marksmanship for the defence of the realm. As far as I know in the 120 years or so that the law has operated in this way it has not been abused and has not created any significant problems.

If it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

[Racalman]

One of my clubs opened their indoor range to the public as a miniature rifle range during a carnival. It was a good little earner.

If you run one of these ranges as a business you don't need an FAC to buy the rifles or ammunition but I imagine you'd have a hard time persuading an RFD to supply you.

Perhaps it's just the way you wrote it, or it's the way that I read it but why "as a business" Racalman?

There are a good many miniature rifle clubs in existence which aren't businesses. Indeed I believe that the NRA operate Cheylesmore as a miniature rifle range. Like you say though convincing RFDs that you are operating a miniature rifle range and don't need to hold a FAC to possess .22" rifles or ammunition may be just a bit of a problem and that is why some clubs have been issued with FACs by their local constabularies. I suppose that in theory they could simply produce a letter to the RFD confirming their status much the same as the forestry commission do when purchasing firearms and ammunition.

It was the way I wrote it. I meant an operation that wasn't a HO club.

By coincidence, this was featured on QI on Dave last night. They said rifle ranges were very popular in pubs in Birmingham after the Boer War in an attempt to improve marksmanship skills, but it was stopped when people started gambling on it.

[Chapuis]

I missed that, no doubt it will be repeated some time soon so I will look out for it.

I seem to recall that bell target leagues were fairly popular around Wolverhampton at one time but from memory I seem to think that these were shot with air rifles rather than .22lr, perhaps they changed to air at some stage.

Funny that this subject should come up as not so long ago a friend of mine was staying in Devizes and said that he was in a pub there one evening when he noticed guys popping back and fore and carrying rifles. He enquired and was invited to take part (he is a shooter). My friend said that he a most enjoyable evening with very good company and that the small target was quite challenging. It would be a very great shame if these traditions were to be lost by say the introduction of addition unnecessary unwarranted legislation. We need to value these things because we will regret their loss should some interfering busy bodies think that the law needs to be changed. Why change something just because it doesn't involve computers and lasers and that isn't causing a problem and gives pleasure to people.

[Mattnall]

The NSRA operate under the S11.4 exemption.

We run a S11 range/business for open days and other events and also 'Beginner's Experience Days' for non-shooters, it dispels many myths about shooting and firearms to the uninitiated and also introduces many new shooters to the sport.

The owner/operator of a range or business can possess, purchase and acquire firearms and ammunition and anyone can use them (S21 still applies I believe, but that is down to the individual). General public cannot just go and say they want to shoot miniature rifles and claim S11 status, you have to be running a miniature rifle range or business and some say you cannot go along with your own firearms, although that open to debate - most target conditions on FAC state use on approved ranges and S11.4 range don't need to be approved.

11.4 A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which no firearms are used other than air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding ·23 inch calibre may, without holding a certificate, have in his possession, or purchase or acquire, such miniature rifles and ammunition suitable therefore; and any person may, without holding a certificate, use any such rifle and ammunition at such a range or gallery.