Muzzle breaks

[Daryll]

this is probably more relevant.....

https://youtu.be/Vt9DzhoTnjU

[kennyc]

so theres a little side blast?

[Maggot]

OK, so here's an update from the coalface so to speak.

The HRA, some F class bods and a large club enterprise involving rimfire target shooting descend on the 200 point at short siberia.

Bit of a rugby bath down the butts for our small bore friends but they seemed to be enjoying themselves, which is nice and what is expected in all shooting sports.

back on the point, we have the 2 F Class lads with .308 FTR rifles between us, an empty point on our right, and right on the end, to the left, the offending article. A .308 with a brake (nothing to do with High Power but the owner wanted to try some ammo and only fired 5 rounds or so) and a couple with ARs.

So they NRA splits the difference because normally we are put far right in case our lack of competence standing and sitting kills anyone on the 100 yard point...but hey ho, they are happy so on we go.

One chap looked very offended and spent a good deal of time staring at our activities, rooted to the spot, well within the rails on the point (which I would take as having entered the firing point and therefore being in a noise hazard area) and no F%C**** ears on He was not alone and one chap struggled to chat with us above the din. (having been told if he spoke to Bradders he would sell him a decent AR). Now bear in mind I am sensitive and my ears are damaged (but not ringing) I wear plugs under sordins as it cuts out the impulse nicely but allows me to hear better....ideal, so these 2 (and many of their friends) either did not find it uncomfortable or did not receive a decent safety brief. I certainly pointed it out but was ignored, so what more can you do?

Not sure what was so fascinating, the standing/sitting or the brakes.....oh well, some folk you just cannot reach

I passed a straw poll to my wife (who hates noisy things...so why she married me....) and a few others, it went like this.

"OK, so you are standing behind a rifle range. You are not wearing ear deffenders for whatever reason, and something louder than usual occurs that you find uncomfortabe, do you?"

A. Kick off with the offender and ask them to pack it in and leave ear defence off. Your problem solved.

B. Silently fume, hold a mothers meeting (without ear defence but lots of tutting and dirty looks usually backed up with loads of nods from the club sec/RCO) and
moan to the range office after the event? You are still deaf but it makes you feel vindicated agains the vile brake using scum.

C. Put ear defence on. If this appears not to be adequate (given we are not all built to the same spec in terms of sensitivity or tolarance) but everyone else seems
ok so you add some foam plugs. Hearing intacts you ensure next time it is sorted and you do not
feel uncomforable, thus allowing everyone to carry on hapilly?

Other than my wifes answer that involved the words "Brainer", everyone else asked me not to insult their intelligence and said look after youself.

Later in the afternoon, same scenrio. We are only firing ARs now but are at 600 and have closed in from both ends so neither adjacent firer gets more than they have to....again, no issues from the adjacent firers, pointing and tutting and muttering from a few in the rear. Dont forget folks that the old electronics amplify the chuntering so keep it fair or keep it down...right

The bottom line is this.

IF we as a sport continue to expect everybody else to think for us, and spend so much time trying to ban, control, and otherwise manipulate our fellow shooters to suit our own minority views, we are ultimatley screwed as a sport. Compromise works both ways.

To quote a friend when asked why he used a brake on his AR, he answered...."because I want to". I think we forget that we still enjoy some freedom while shooting, lets not lose it or take it from one another by silliness eh? Lets take responsibility for ourselves BEFORE we seek to screw others over as has happened in the past.

Thanks.;

[Racalman]

Well said sir.

Gets my vote.

[Pete]

At the end of the day, the best way to handle this is to state that you intend to use a brake when booking a lane or signing in. (I only shoot at Bisley, so I don't know what happens elsewhere).
This allows the range office to put you in a spot where you won't be next to someone trying to practice TR or F class.

Not really a case of controlling anything, just trying to get people to consider what detrimental effect their actions might have on the ability of others to enjoy the sport.
Sadly, there will always be the gobby inconsiderate clown who is unable/unwilling to see this............

Pete

[Fedaykin]

I must admit I have been following this thread with interest especially as I own a braked rifle and have another on order.

It turns my mind back to some interesting conversations I had with a company that makes specialised in ear protection a few years back when I was shooting with the HME boys of Offas Dyke and the FCSA.

In many ways whilst brakes can be anti social people who are complaining about them are missing a fundamental issue when it comes to sport shooters and hearing protection...the VAST MAJORITY are wearing inadequate hearing protection for the rifles they are shooting regardless of it having a brake or not!

Many rifles you should really have in ear and external protection at the same time! Those people hanging around the points tut tutting about the braked rifles with little or no hearing protection on are more than likely damaging their hearing with the rifles they prefer.

[hitchphil]

I must admit I have been following this thread with interest especially as I own a braked rifle and have another on order.

It turns my mind back to some interesting conversations I had with a company that makes specialised in ear protection a few years back when I was shooting with the HME boys of Offas Dyke and the FCSA.

In many ways whilst brakes can be anti social people who are complaining about them are missing a fundamental issue when it comes to sport shooters and hearing protection...the VAST MAJORITY are wearing inadequate hearing protection for the rifles they are shooting regardless of it having a brake or not!

Many rifles you should really have in ear and external protection at the same time! Those people hanging around the points tut tutting about the braked rifles with little or no hearing protection on are more than likely damaging their hearing with the rifles they prefer.

Eer ....Why? A normal rifle 30cm back from the muzzle of a 308 ~150-190 Db, where the RCO walks up & down + 120-90Db behind the ditch 500 & 600 Bisley (for reference) ~70-80db - at the tree line edge carpark ~60db thats the same as normal speech (unbraked / no ear defs on) vs a MB rifle & at the same place ~90 Db. The brake concentrates the sound pressure wave and sends it backwards between 30 & 60 degrees either side of the rifle line of sight where it generates sound levels that are damaging to hearing. Why should i retreat to my car, windows closed to put on my shooting glasses had & adjust my ear defs over them because its now unsafe to my hearing to do so some 30 foot back from a braked rifle?

Your missing the fundamental issue the sound levels from them to innocent bystanders other shooters & people preparing their kit (including their hearing protection) is above the levels internationally recognised to damage hearing +80Db's. The NRA's lane separation is only to prevent injury by gas & debris blast it does little for the hearing of those of us well behind the FP.

I agree with the point about firers wearing both plugs & defenders.

[Fedaykin]

Eer ....Why? A normal rifle 30cm back from the muzzle of a 308 ~150-190 Db, where the RCO walks up & down + 120-90Db behind the ditch 500 & 600 Bisley (for reference) ~70-80db - at the tree line edge carpark ~60db thats the same as normal speech (unbraked / no ear defs on) vs a MB rifle & at the same place ~90 Db.

Define normal rifle! I'm sorry there are plenty of unbraked rifles out there that produce dangerous levels of noise even a fair distance back from the point.

The brake concentrates the sound pressure wave and sends it backwards between 30 & 60 degrees either side of the rifle line of sight where it generates sound levels that are damaging to hearing.

Yup, and so do rifles with out breaks...

Why should i retreat to my car, windows closed to put on my shooting glasses had & adjust my ear defs over them because its now unsafe to my hearing to do so some 30 foot back from a braked rifle?

That is an interesting question and in the end this is about personal opinion but for me anybody on a range should have hearing protection on them at all times! If there is firing happening then that protection should be on! So under those circumstances you wouldn't need to retreat to your car to put them on. When I am on a range regardless of how far back I am from the points I have hearing protection on if there is shooting happening. Having shot with the HME guys that includes down at the butts...

Your missing the fundamental issue the sound levels from them to innocent bystanders other shooters & people preparing their kit (including their hearing protection) is above the levels internationally recognised to damage hearing +80Db's. The NRA's lane separation is only to prevent injury by gas & debris blast it does little for the hearing of those of us well behind the FP.

I appreciate at Bisley there is an ebb and flow of people onto the points probably makes things inconveniant but considering the hearing damage that can be sustained from and gun I refer to my above points...keep hear protection on you when somebody is shooting



I agree with the point about firers wearing both plugs & defenders.

My underlying point beyond the debate about braked rifles is a significant proportion of those who participate are not only wearing inadequate hearing protection when shooting but are also rather lax about what they do on a range when it comes to hearing protection.

For me calling for bans on braked rifles opens up a can of worms when it comes to the noise and general blast generated by a fair few rifles without them...stand in close proximity to a Mosin Nagant M44 Carbine firing surplus ammo (probably with a gleefully grinning Snayperskaya at the trigger) you know exactly what I mean!

My underlying issue is there are a fair few people who seem to think that the hearing protection they have is instantly satisfactory for the rifle they own or standing x distance back from the firing points without hearing protection (if there are no braked rifles around) will be adequate to protect their hearing.

Then again we who have brakes on our rifles do need to be mindful of what is going on around us!

[HH1]

I have been shooting a Braked .308 rifle on an MOD range for over 13 years and I've yet to have anyone complain.
I sometimes shoot it at a 50m indoor range and although it sounds loud, no one ever moans about the noise.... sometimes they might laugh about the paint and plaster coming off the ceiling though.

My SGC 9mm lever-release came pre-built with a Brake fitted. I mainly shoot this indoors and after 1,500 rounds, no complaints from anyone.... if anything its more a case of "give us a go"......

[Maggot]

I think ladies and germs, that we really HAVE to make best use of hearing defence and look after ourselves.

Unless one is fired, none of us have the slightest idea what is on the point, and going back to my days with helicopters it was not just the decibels but the frequency that hurt....The Gazzelle and anything with an Aztazou, Artouste, or anything with watever was in a Gnat or a Majister was orrible!!!

Whatever I shoot I find the noise fatiguing, which lead me to start wearing plugs as well.

Interesting point by fadaykin as I have shot with the FCSA and the only problem was my bloody sinuses clapclap

You simply cannot roll about the place manking about other shooters (who in most cases will do their best) and expect to be wet nursed. If you have protection with you and you are feeling uncomfortable....put them on FFS and if they dont work, use something that does.

One way or another we are all noisy b****** anyway