Long barreled pistols question

[TattooedGun]

I'm not 100% sure, but I'd suggest a firearm designed for use with one hand would make it a pistol, as opposed to one made to use both hands, aka a rifle.

I wouldn't say this is a hard and fast rule, this is just my interpretation.

[TattooedGun]

One might argue as well, a rifle is designed to be shot from the shoulder, whereas a pistol is not.

[Blackstuff]

Whats the difference between a long barrelled pistol and a long barrelled rifle.

The problem with the legislation is, as with all law in this country, everything is permitted, unless its prohibited. In order to 'ban'* handguns the legislators had to define what a handgun was i.e. a lethal barreled firearm with a barrel less than 300mm in length and 600mm OAL. AFAIK there is no definition of what a rifle or a LBP/LBF specifically is, just what a firearm is and a handgun isn't

As there is no legal definition of what a LBF/LBR is they float in a grey area of legislation which is not captured by the normal exemptions, correctly quoted by Tattooedgun. They are however mentioned several times in the guidance and it should not be possible for a club to have one as a club gun, but if someones managed it, then crack on

*yes I know there are exemptions but lets try and keep this as simple as possible!

[Sim G]

I am aware that a club did make a successful challenge at County Court to have a lbr autgirised on their club certificate, but the exact vagaries have been difficult to learn. From the bits gleaned it seems that the lbr is owned and kept at the club on the clubs FAC and that members who wish to use it have had the lbr added to their own certificate on a "shared" basis.

I can't see how it could be achieved any other way. For the Home Office to give approval to a specific club would be contrary to their own guidelines and discriminatory against all other HO approved clubs. All of it then so easily challengeable.

The fact is, unless there are very, very specific circumstances of shared ownership of an lbr, anyone using one in a club environment clearly does not have the exemption as granted in s15 FAA 1988 and will be committing an offence, would be my interpretation.

[HH1]

One of my Clubs has LBR's in the rack behind the counter. They are club guns as far as I am aware. I have my own LBP so I've not really taken much notice. I will have a closer look one evening this week.

As regards the legislation, I've heard different things. For example, my Dad bought a LBP a few years back and I did some gun-smithing work on it for him in order to fit a scope etc. I had my own LBP.... but my understanding is that strictly speaking I should not really have touched his gun as it (serial no.) was not on my certificate. Similar thing with Section 1 shotguns.... Its my understanding that only I can shoot my Sect 1 shotgun..... whereas friends who are ex police (high ranking) with Sect 1 shotguns say that as long as you have Sect 1 on your certificate you can use each others.... It should be made far clearer.

[Blackstuff]

"Should" being the operative word!

[IsleShoot]

As a very keen 'pistol' shooter this subject is my bête noire!

You're pretty much all correct!

The case law you're talking about is Regina v's Wells in which an overly zealous Met policeman took Mr Well's (Sportsman's Association) to court as he had sold his club (Kingston?) an LBP. Mr Wells won but the judge made a point during his summing up that this case could not set precedent.

As a previous postie mentioned, the law is not defined by the Home Office nor the Police licensing department, they simply interpret the law and as far as I'm aware the Act & its amendments do not define either rifle nor pistol, there is only 'long firearms' & 'short firearms'.

With regards the Home Office Guidance, this is can be considered an 'Approved Code of Practice' which sets out how they interpret the law, so.....

You can use someone else's LBP or LBR but you'll need to be confident that if challenged by either the Police or however unlikely, the HO, you've got deep pockets and good council!!!

In my opinion (which counts for very little) you'd win but I wouldn't want to risk my liberty over it, much easier just to get a variation for one!

The NRA & UKPSA should be doing more to clarify/resolve this.

[Sim G]

Unfortunately, current legislation, regulations and guidance is quite clear on lbr/lbp's...

It's either on your certificate, or you can't be in possession of one. And it's not as if this is something that the HO have forgotten about. The Policing and Crime Act 2017 would have changed the status as detailed in the Bill, however, this was removed after reading in the Lords.

They know they're out there, they know the ambiguity they cause, there's no will to see that changed.

[stuarta]

I have a Morini 84E free pistol and I needed a FAC slot for a .22 long barrel pistol not a slot for a .22 rifle, it had to be specific. A club members had a free pistol and other members Buckmaster and Taurus long barrel pistols and revolvers. I shot one members gun before I bought my Morini, it brought back all the memories of when I first started shooting and had a S&W .38 and I just wanted to own and shoot a pistol again, maybe that is why the law is written in such a way as to stop people having the chance to experience shooting pistols.
Getting all your shots in the black, just under half inside the 8 ring and even the odd inner 10 is such a challenge at 50 meters. To the ones who say they won't shoot pistols because they are not like they were pre ban, I feel you are missing out on some wonderful shooting and if you see me at the range and it is quiet you are welcome to (you know what I want to say but can,t).

[Daryll]

As far as i'm aware (certainly in Cambridgeshire), you have to apply for a "long barrelled revover" in the specific caliber, or a "long barrelled pistol" in .22.

When i had a variation to get an LBR, the certificate came back with "One .38/.357 Rifle"... that didn't seem right to me, so I rang and checked, and they confirmed that was an error, and it should state "One .38/.357 Long barrelled revolver"... they did correct it immediately and i collected the amended FAC later that day.

I don't think Cambs clubs can have LBR/LBPs on the club certificate.