Gallery LBR

[Dellboy]

So as no pistols are currently manufactured in the UK any gunsmith can take any frame and produce a lbp or lbr as long as the said frame was never on a UK sec 5 pistol ? even convert a muzzle loader to a cartridge lbr ?
Is that written in stone somewhere ?

if thats the case im amazed there is so little choice

[Sim G]

There is so little choice because the law dictates that any firearm that was once prohibited cannot be converted into a non prohibited category. The only exemptions are shotguns. In the UK, out of the UK is neither here nor there, if it was once as described in s5(1), it remains so. s7 FAA 1988 refers. s57(1)(b) FA 1968, includes components of such firearms.

Having now read that the S&W LBRs floating around are modded from short firearms and not a sourced only frame, then my excitement is completely dampened. I’d hazard they fall into s5. There’s a lot of wishful thinking being expressed on this thread.

When I first looked to acquire an LBR ten years ago, or so, I explored with the Home Office this exact scenario. I was however, looking to have a revolver “converted” in either the Isle of Man or Northern Ireland. Almost a “section 1 to section 1”, or so I thought. Categorically no if the finished LBR contained any component parts from a short firearm. If assembled from newly acquired parts, then no issue. But, as already cited, Smith & Wesson do no supply their revolver frames separately. Ergo, any part gleaned from a short firearm, is hence prohibited.

[Gh0st]

Not wishful thinking if they are already in the U.K. and being sold without any issues?

[Sim G]

Not if they’ve been imported under the auspices of which they are not....

[MistAgain]

Just think about it . Richard had close relationships with more than a couple of importers and several dealers across Europe dating back to the pre handgun days . He has kept up these relationships . His new build Matchmasters sell very well in Europe.

So if he wanted he could quite easily drive over to say Germany , spend a week or so there and build up a good sized batch of S & W LBR's .
Then drive home with them as LBR's , do all the final fitting and tuning , get them proofed and get them sold .
If he turned up at the Phoenix Meeting with 50 , he would sell out .

So why doesnt he do this ?

Simple really , if the Home Office tells the Police to take action , he risks a big fine and the loss of his dealers licence .
He would have to fight the case in Court , thats expensive . What if he looses ?
All his buyers risk getting the guns confiscated with no compensation from the Government , so they would go after Richard . He would probably have to go into bankruptcy . Not a nice thought is it .

I can think of at least 3 other dealers who could do the same sort of thing on a fairly large scale in either Europe or USA .
They dont do it either because they value their licence and they dont want their customers to loose their property .

Will the people selling these S & W conversions or these soon to be here Glocks give a written statement that promises 100% cash back within 7 days if any guns are seized ?

I think not .

[Hrun]

Not if they’ve been imported under the auspices of which they are not....

The issue as I see it from your post is if you buy it as a UK citizen and then have it converted, you have bought a section 5 (as classed in the UK) and cannot import it even with the conversation.

However, if you are a foreign gun smith, since the UK classification only applies once you try and import the gun, you can do whatever you want as long as the finished firearm meets section 1 rules when you apply for the import licence.

I am not even sure why we are discussing this, I own a german GSG 1911 which was built for the UK market with a long barrel and coathanger. The GSG 1911 is also available in a format which would be section 5 in this country, yet the importer got an import licence, the shop took possession legally and sold it to me legally to fill a slot granted me by the police when I requested an LBP.

Not sure what part of that process was potentially illegal and risks confiscation?

[MistAgain]

When GSG builds our 1911's , they build them from a batch of parts that have never been a completed firearm in Sect 5 form.

And Edgars does not need an import licence for them either .

[the running man]

There is so little choice because the law dictates that any firearm that was once prohibited cannot be converted into a non prohibited category. The only exemptions are shotguns. In the UK, out of the UK is neither here nor there, if it was once as described in s5(1), it remains so. s7 FAA 1988 refers. s57(1)(b) FA 1968, includes components of such firearms.

Having now read that the S&W LBRs floating around are modded from short firearms and not a sourced only frame, then my excitement is completely dampened. I’d hazard they fall into s5. There’s a lot of wishful thinking being expressed on this thread.

When I first looked to acquire an LBR ten years ago, or so, I explored with the Home Office this exact scenario. I was however, looking to have a revolver “converted” in either the Isle of Man or Northern Ireland. Almost a “section 1 to section 1”, or so I thought. Categorically no if the finished LBR contained any component parts from a short firearm. If assembled from newly acquired parts, then no issue. But, as already cited, Smith & Wesson do no supply their revolver frames separately. Ergo, any part gleaned from a short firearm, is hence prohibited.

I'm struggling to see your boggle here, the taurus and k22 the Ruger Redhawk the gsg 1911 all were without braces and the pistols without long Barrells and braces before they came into the UK, are you saying they are also illegal? The two guys bringing these in have suitable letters of authority or they would not risk importing them......please show me your law interpretation of which section of the firearms act that you seen to think these violate.....

[Sim G]

The issue as I see it from your post is if you buy it as a UK citizen and then have it converted, you have bought a section 5 (as classed in the UK) and cannot import it even with the conversation.

However, if you are a foreign gun smith, since the UK classification only applies once you try and import the gun, you can do whatever you want as long as the finished firearm meets section 1 rules when you apply for the import licence.

I am not even sure why we are discussing this, I own a german GSG 1911 which was built for the UK market with a long barrel and coathanger. The GSG 1911 is also available in a format which would be section 5 in this country, yet the importer got an import licence, the shop took possession legally and sold it to me legally to fill a slot granted me by the police when I requested an LBP.

Not sure what part of that process was potentially illegal and risks confiscation?

You’re missing the point. Your GSG 1911 was manufactured with its 12” barrel and extending rod in order to comply with UK legislation. It left the GSG factory in that guise and was imported as a s1 firearm. That is not what is in dispute, perfectly legal.

Helmut on the other hand, buys half a dozen GSG 1911s from the factory that have 5 inch barrels and an OAL of 8.5”. He puts them in his shop but no one buys them. As they stand, they would be s5 in the UK. Helmut then fits them with a 12” barrel and a rod taking the OAL above 24”. He wants to import them into the UK. But, those GSG 1911s are actually s5 because of their former incarnation.

s7(1) Firearms Amendment Act 1988 states;

“Conversion not to affect classification.

(1)Any weapon which—

(a)has at any time (whether before or after the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997) been a weapon of a kind described in section 5(1) or (1A) of the principal Act (including any amendments to section 5(1) made under section 1(4) of this Act);

(b)is not a self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which has at any such time been such a weapon by reason only of having had a barrel less than 24 inches in length,

shall be treated as a prohibited weapon notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a weapon of a different kind.”

[Sim G]

I'm struggling to see your boggle here, the taurus and k22 the Ruger Redhawk the gsg 1911 all were without braces and the pistols without long Barrells and braces before they came into the UK, are you saying they are also illegal? The two guys bringing these in have suitable letters of authority or they would not risk importing them......please show me your law interpretation of which section of the firearms act that you seen to think these violate.....

The K22, GSG were made in the factory to comply with UK spec. Likewise, the Taurus, made at the factory to comply with UK spec. The Rutgers, as with the LBR Uberti never had extended rods, but barrels over 20 inches to make the OAL. See the example of “Helmut” and the quote of legislation.

“Suitable letters of authority”? There’s been no change in the law either at primary or precedent. Home Office Guidance remains the same. These letters may provide mitigation, but as firearms offences are absolute, they would not be a “get out of jail” card unless they grant s5 authority to the holder.