Field firing ranges, no civilian use.

[dromia]

For information.

"After speaking to the staff at Otterburn yesterday (13th August) the following reason has been given. Provided here as bullet points;

Each firing exercise has to be "planned" by the unit using the range. Whether that is a military or civilian unit is irrelevant as they all have to be planned the same way - this includes such things as arrival/departure, provision of Range Conducting Officers, range assistants, medical staff, first aid provision and the procedures to be carried out in case of an unexpected incident during the firing period.
An element of the planning is the actual firing practice its self. This includes deciding where firing will take place from, whether there is any movement or firing from height allowed, the types of firearms and ammunition used, the types and locations of targets which are to be used and from what point each target may be engaged.
Each range has a "trace" which is an imaginary border extending from the firing points and out on specific angles to a pre-determined distance down range depending on what firearms are being used. Different traces are used for different firearms, for example the trace allowing .50 BMG to be fired is different to the trace for 7.62mm. Whether a particular trace can be used depends, among other things, upon the activity on surrounding ranges or roads.
When a non-military user is firing on the FFA's the military apply and authorise the use of a particular trace and determine the location and types of targets which are to be used on any particular firing exercise.
As noted above, this activity by the military constitutes part of the "planning" phase of the firing exercise.
The MoD has decided that no military personnel are allowed to be involved in the planning of civilian firing exercises.
There are no civilian qualifications which act as an equivalent to the military qualification (as an RCO qualification does) to allow the application and "sign-off" of firing traces by non military users.

This explanation, as far as we can tell, is accurate as it has come direct from military personnel at Otterburn and is also briefly (to put it mildly) mentioned in the current NRA journal."]

I wonder what the current state of the working relationship 'tween the MoD and the NRA is?

[phaedra1106]

That's very similar to one of the reasons we were told about, what we were told was that because the MOD had assumed the 50cal ban would go ahead they placed a 7.62mm trace on the FFA's, effectively limiting them to gallery ranges. They did this last year and our shooting was limited to that trace for several months.

[mag41uk]

So what happens if you are a civilian but are ex MoD with an in date suitable qual?

[Alpha1]

I had a field firing range booked every month up till the end of the year. We have been using this range for years .
They cancelled all our ranges leaving us with no were to shoot. I am curently in negotiation with the booking office staff trying to find alternative ranges.

[WelshShooter]

That's very similar to one of the reasons we were told about, what we were told was that because the MOD had assumed the 50cal ban would go ahead they placed a 7.62mm trace on the FFA's, effectively limiting them to gallery ranges. They did this last year and our shooting was limited to that trace for several months.

+1 but for Sennybridge F range, very similar to what we've been told.

I don't understand this business about the 50bmg traces. Do the military not use 50bmg at all, or just 5.56mm and 7.62mm? Surely they'd need to do the 50 cal trace for themselves?

[mag41uk]

That's very similar to one of the reasons we were told about, what we were told was that because the MOD had assumed the 50cal ban would go ahead they placed a 7.62mm trace on the FFA's, effectively limiting them to gallery ranges. They did this last year and our shooting was limited to that trace for several months.

+1 but for Sennybridge F range, very similar to what we've been told.

I don't understand this business about the 50bmg traces. Do the military not use 50bmg at all, or just 5.56mm and 7.62mm? Surely they'd need to do the 50 cal trace for themselves?

50 certainly has been fire at senny by the military and in copious amounts.
A couple of us went for a walk with a landmarc RO a few years back into the impact area on F range.
There were the remains of a humber pig out at 1500yds or so.
The spent 50 cal bullets were ankle deep! Lots of full auto had been launched the previous week for "testing" purposes.
I was told that if just one person - civvy club - wanted to shoot 50cal it put most of the electronic targets off limits on F range due to the narrow trace.
In fact I am not even sure the military still shoot on the electronics on F range as a lot of them were getting destroyed from the steep angle of the incoming bullets from long range.
A pity they ever got rid of those old 3 phase targets!

[Cj10]

I’m by no means the NRA’s biggest fan, but they have been attempting to resolve this issue with the MOD since it cropped up. It is for the MOD to accept or reject a solution. The NRA is not in a position to impose one.

When I explained this issue to a couple of club members the response I got equated to, “The NRA should sue the MOD, or we as a club should”. I did ask what the cause of action would be given we have no right or absolute entitlement to access, and didn’t get much of a response. I am fortunate that I can book a 1200 yard gallery range each month, along with a couple of ETR( gallery ranges) with no issue.

This year I’ve been at Bisley a number of times, after taking up csr, and I have to say I’ve had my eyes opened somewhat to what the NRA does to promote shooting sports. It’s far more than what I previously thought, and that includes disciplines which are seen as contentious by target rifle purists.

There is no easy answer to this issue, and if there is a workable resolution which the MOD would accept I’m sure the NRA would welcome being told what it is, if they haven’t identified it already.

Ceri

[snayperskaya]

That's very similar to one of the reasons we were told about, what we were told was that because the MOD had assumed the 50cal ban would go ahead they placed a 7.62mm trace on the FFA's, effectively limiting them to gallery ranges. They did this last year and our shooting was limited to that trace for several months.

+1 but for Sennybridge F range, very similar to what we've been told.

I don't understand this business about the 50bmg traces. Do the military not use 50bmg at all, or just 5.56mm and 7.62mm? Surely they'd need to do the 50 cal trace for themselves?

And the 105mm trace!

If the MOD are using 5.56 and 7.62 on F Range then why can't civvy clubs still shoot those calibres and variations of....rather than a blanket "ban" on all club shooting on there?.

[mag41uk]

That's very similar to one of the reasons we were told about, what we were told was that because the MOD had assumed the 50cal ban would go ahead they placed a 7.62mm trace on the FFA's, effectively limiting them to gallery ranges. They did this last year and our shooting was limited to that trace for several months.

+1 but for Sennybridge F range, very similar to what we've been told.

I don't understand this business about the 50bmg traces. Do the military not use 50bmg at all, or just 5.56mm and 7.62mm? Surely they'd need to do the 50 cal trace for themselves?

And the 105mm trace!

If the MOD are using 5.56 and 7.62 on F Range then why can't civvy clubs still shoot those calibres and variations of....rather than a blanket "ban" on all club shooting on there?.

And that is the problem I would imagine - civvy clubs on an mod range. Think back to why the ssc card was implemented. It only takes one civvy club to not toe the line and its game over.The MoD have little interest in civilians on their ranges. We are the bottom of the list. Even cadets get priority.

[snayperskaya]

And that is the problem I would imagine - civvy clubs on an mod range. Think back to why the ssc card was implemented. It only takes one civvy club to not toe the line and its game over.The MoD have little interest in civilians on their ranges. We are the bottom of the list. Even cadets get priority.

But that said the other ranges as Sennybridge such as G Range and J3 Range have been used by at least one club the whole time F Range (field-fire) has been off limits.........