Steel targets at Bisley?

[Scrumbag]

I first went to Bisley for Pistol 78. Last year was the first one since when I haven't attended at least one major meeting. I lived in Lancashire until 1985, then the West Midlands. I have been a life member for many years. I have never fired a 7.62mm calibre target rifle.
What I want the NRA to do is organise major competitions that I can attend and provide me with accomodation. It does this very well.
The current CEO was appointed when the NRA was in dire financial straights: he took a business approach to running the organisation and very quickly turned the financial situation around. He now may need to do this again. I would like to see the costs of running the various arms fairs and side shows reduced. The profit motive has increased costs and scared off the smaller dealers---in the old days, a dealer could bring down all the goodie boxes accumulated in his business for us to rummage through and rent a small space for very little money.
Fred

I agree the NRA was not doing so well in terms of finances and the CEO helped with that but he has burned what I understand are several hundred thousand pounds in legal fees over the last 2-3 years so some of the lack of reserves at present sits with him - believe even the charity commission said that was not on.

I'm not so sure it does run comps so well - I shot one of the last comps (autumn action weekend?) and the NRA hadn't even got target boards in the right places let alone the correct faces. The events were save by competitors and ROs who aren't NRA staff mucking in and sorting it out. Sadly this isn't so A-typical in my experience.

Also Fred, what the hell did you have to do to get accomodation? Or don't I want to know

ATB,

Scrummy

[FredB]

Accomodation can be booked online---posh (in the pavillion)---basic---wooden huts or, in my case, a touring caravan site with electricity.
These days I only shoot in historic events and these are totally dependent on volunteer range officers. I used to act as an RO but packed it in a few years after I retired.
Fred

[GeeRam]

I have to admit that if I didn't live close to Bisley, I wouldn't be a member of the NRA. What's the point? Up North do they do anything for anybody? I can't think of anything.

Same here, plus for me, NRA membership is a safety backup for license retention, as my club is quite small, and with a high average age of members and especially officials, it wouldn't take much for a situation to develop that could see us too small to be viable, especially in this current Covid climate.

[Sfwh]

Getting elected to the General Council is very difficult unless you happen to be a member of one of the "big three" clubs (Surrey, North London and the London and Middlesex which seem to vote "en bloc"). Also, in order to get elected, you seem to have to have shot in TR at some representative level - that's all well and good but what that actually teaches you about running an association is beyond me...

It seems the NRA has forgotten it's remit is to promote marksmanship not just TR...

Scrummy

There was an unfortunate self-fulfilling prophecy at my University club where nothing but TR was encouraged because the University competitions are only for TR and the University competitions are only for TR because that's all the clubs encourage*. This led to the same sort of thing you're describing where TR experience was seen as the only relevant experience for committee positions and gallery rifle/CSR shooters were told their shooting achievements weren't worth anything as that's not "real shooting".

My experience has been that the NRA as a whole seems to work the same way. TR is the "real shooting" and everything else is just something a bit silly on the side to do in the TR off season.

*There are exceptions to this like Imperial Colleges gallery rifle team but these disciplines are pursued in the knowledge that you will not be able to compete in official university competitions which sometimes has funding implications.

[hitchphil]

Getting elected to the General Council is very difficult unless you happen to be a member of one of the "big three" clubs (Surrey, North London and the London and Middlesex which seem to vote "en bloc"). Also, in order to get elected, you seem to have to have shot in TR at some representative level - that's all well and good but what that actually teaches you about running an association is beyond me...

It seems the NRA has forgotten it's remit is to promote marksmanship not just TR...

Scrummy

There was an unfortunate self-fulfilling prophecy at my University club where nothing but TR was encouraged because the University competitions are only for TR and the University competitions are only for TR because that's all the clubs encourage*. This led to the same sort of thing you're describing where TR experience was seen as the only relevant experience for committee positions and gallery rifle/CSR shooters were told their shooting achievements weren't worth anything as that's not "real shooting".

My experience has been that the NRA as a whole seems to work the same way. TR is the "real shooting" and everything else is just something a bit silly on the side to do in the TR off season.

*There are exceptions to this like Imperial Colleges gallery rifle team but these disciplines are pursued in the knowledge that you will not be able to compete in official university competitions which sometimes has funding implications.

More to it than that - BUCS Points = Uni Cred, so Athletic & Student unions invest to win them. They are based in traditional competition disciplines TR/SBR, hence the focus & the elitism shown by some, & as SBR is the Olympic discipline & TR a CWG one.

Add the publics manipulated view of shooting to the fact that Unis have become 'corporate' with an image & reputation to manage to attract fat fees, so are more conservative & risk averse. And you have the situation you describe. Its not the Uni clubs driving that its the Unis & BUCS

Gallery Rifle is the natural next discipline for Unis to expand into, its much more accessible to Students with cheap 22 or .38 ammo & guns in the £200-£600 bracket vs CSR £2k & TR £3k & FTR! well £xxK. Its possible to do on local ranges if they allow - but many are NSRA 22 TR so dont do anything else, or were certificated as prone only. That's slowly changing with their version of GR - LSR light weight sporting rifle etc, so it might need to include that. If Uni clubs can pull together a GR championship & manage the cost, accessibility & image, then thats got real potential to earn BUCS points & get wider support. But BUCS are not going to do that for them, so the Uni clubs need to do it themselves then sell the benefits to BUCS. There are motivated people in BYSA etc that will help.

We currently have all the conditions for the near elimination of University shooting in these next 2 years! C19 means most Uni clubs haven't shot for nearly 2 academic years. Some will only survive IF they can attract freshers in Oct & find that 18y old unicorn with both experience of shooting or running a club? lots of them about? -NOT! Gov fees to change the name on the HO approval/FAC are now £200 & renewal is +£300 so that will put pressure on too. Its frustrating that the acrimonious schism in your Uni club may well result in closure of yet another good Uni club with loss of all the kit & the HO approval. It did do some HSR & GR as fun alongside their BUCS points focused TR.

What Uni shooting really needs right now is cohesion, members pulling together as one club even if in different ones, putting aside discipline differences & focusing on reacquiring those BUCS points & so yes silly jackets etc..... & then widening the scope to include GR, HSR CSR etc. There just isn't any other lifeboat on the scene!

So if your members can shoot & get a 95+ with an anschutz (& so a 45+ with a 7.62) then my advice is go do that, lead those clubs back to strength, then show them the other disciplines. View it as c19 has put the plan to diversify Uni shooting back 2-3 years & accept you may have graduated & moved on by the time it can really do that.

Other readers - If you are alumni or live near a Uni make contact & help them along! = coaching, advice, kit, ammo. training, safety, taking on their FAC holding but dont take over.

In the last few years we have lost Glasgow, Reading, Coventry are suspended as is Surrey, London in jeopardy as is Newcastle. Lose Uni shooting & we lose the sport. End of story to quote a damned Brummy CWG2022 councillor!

[Scrumbag]

I think university shooting clubs shooting more disciplines would be great however I don't think it is the answer to the NRA's problems sadly.

Interestingly, I had a look into becoming and life member of Imperial College Union yesterday, there's even a website for it. Sad thing is, it's not working so I can't apply to join ICRPC

Scrummy

[Sfwh]

I think university shooting clubs shooting more disciplines would be great however I don't think it is the answer to the NRA's problems sadly.

Scrummy

Oh no I don't think that the NRA's problems can be fixed through University clubs I was more just highlighting how Universities seem to be having internal problems similar to the NRA just on a smaller scale. I think that the NRA's attitude of "this is a TR facility where you can also do some other types of shooting" does bleed through though. I think something like steel targets would be a strong statement by the NRA that they want Bisley to be suited to all types of shooting. That would hopefully then filter through to University clubs that push TR at the expense of all other disciplines.

[Sfwh]

We currently have all the conditions for the near elimination of University shooting in these next 2 years! C19 means most Uni clubs haven't shot for nearly 2 academic years. Some will only survive IF they can attract freshers in Oct & find that 18y old unicorn with both experience of shooting or running a club? lots of them about? -NOT! Gov fees to change the name on the HO approval/FAC are now £200 & renewal is +£300 so that will put pressure on too. Its frustrating that the acrimonious schism in your Uni club may well result in closure of yet another good Uni club with loss of all the kit & the HO approval. It did do some HSR & GR as fun alongside their BUCS points focused TR.

I know ULRC offered HSR & GR as I was the one who founded those elements of the club and it was a daily struggle to keep them going. These disciplines were used heavily in club advertising as TR is not exactly what the average 18-year-old has in mind when they go to try shooting. Once they had joined people were then told it was TR or nothing and if they insisted on shooting HSR they'd get no funding, no range time and would be bullied or even ridiculed by people who said TR was the only discipline worth doing. This then caused the schism and killed the club.

What Uni shooting really needs right now is cohesion, members pulling together as one club even if in different ones, putting aside discipline differences & focusing on reacquiring those BUCS points & so yes silly jackets etc..... & then widening the scope to include GR, HSR CSR etc. There just isn't any other lifeboat on the scene!

Respectfully I think this is the last thing uni clubs need. Shooting is optional, people do it for fun. Telling people who don't want to shoot TR that they have to is the fastest way to lose members and kill a club. At ULRC we were seeing less and less people interested in TR and therefore the efforts to force them to do it were becoming stronger and more unpleasant. If no one wants to shoot TR they shouldn't have to and if that means that no one attends BUCS that will be a fairly strong message to BUCS to change. My club now has members who think all TR shooters are horrible because their only experience of them is from Uni clubs/the NRA forcing it down their throats and belittling their other interests and that is terrible at a time when the shooting community needs as much cohesion as possible. I don't know why Glasgow, Reading, Coventry, Surrey, London and Newcastle are all in trouble/gone but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because being told to do something you don't want to do so one day you can shoot the way you want is less preferable than just not shooting at all.