Unproofed guns in the UK

[ovenpaa]

Reading an article on another site reminded me...

We are bringing a rifle with out any proof marks into the country soon. Now as far as I know we can own an unproofed rifle but not sell it. The thing is if it is on the Vikings ticket can I shoot it as I am not the legal owner?

Given it's age I am slightly wary of getting it proofed but common sense says get it done especially if I have ay reservation about the firearm. It is just the thought of cramming an excessive load through such an old lady, it makes me think of someone taking their granny bungee jumping

[Sim G]

I'm sure you're OK. The proof is about the "sale" of a gun.

[dodgyrog]

Drive to Birmingham and get it instant proofed. Make an appointment first!
It's well worth the trip there.
Good luck in finding the Proof House.

[ovenpaa]

I have passed it on the train a few times. What is it like for parking round there Rog?

[R.G.C]

Reading an article on another site reminded me...

We are bringing a rifle with out any proof marks into the country soon. Now as far as I know we can own an unproofed rifle but not sell it. The thing is if it is on the Vikings ticket can I shoot it as I am not the legal owner?

Given it's age I am slightly wary of getting it proofed but common sense says get it done especially if I have ay reservation about the firearm. It is just the thought of cramming an excessive load through such an old lady, it makes me think of someone taking their granny bungee jumping

Ovenoaa
I would not comment about UK proofing, and I know your proofhouse (at least one) does not have a good reputation ….
The CIP proofing protocol seem to be dead letter in some instances.
There is two proofing catagories. Lets look at what is the custom at the St Etienne proofhouse (and others foreigns I have visited):
-If proof tested ammunition exist at the proofhouse. The firearm is fired 2 shots and, if successful, the firearm is stamped and a proof certificate is delivered , giving the pressure developed by the ammo heing shot in pressure test barrel (not in the proofed firearm itself).. This is usually 25% over normal pressure of the calibre as defined by CIP.
-If no proof ammunition exist, and it is often the case (wikdcars, obsolete....), the ammunition as supplied by the owner is used, heated to 80° supposed to develop the requested 25%. A proof certificate is delivered, but no indication n of pressure developed is entered on the document..
I would tend to think an import would be considered as a transaction, as it is here, and the importer would have to have it proofed. In case if any problem happening, in shooting, the stamped proof marks would help.
If one time you sell the rifle, in theory, it would then have to be proofed prior anyway, I think??.
R.G.C

[ovenpaa]

Robert, we are the importers as we purchased the rifle in Denmark last year and are now ready to bring it to the UK. It is an M1889 Krag from 1892 so a bit of an old lady now. I somehow doubt the proof house will have ammunition for it which means we would need to supply something, we have available to us Danish military ammunition dated from 1914-1930, probably from Otterup and 1965-66 from Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik which I am 99% confident will be from Otterup. I am not sure how the earlier stuff would perform and I have no idea how hot the later stuff is as standard.

[Sim G]

Bloody he'll, David, you've just had me trawl through reams of Victorian legislation!

You will be fine for Chrystel not to prove the weapon (she is the owner) as it's for use in connection with her and not trade. If you ever come to sell, transfer or export, it will need proofing.

S.122 (4) Gun Barrel Proof Act 1868.

[Dangermouse]

If you ever come to sell, transfer or export, it will need proofing.

In this country that is

I have a feeling it is only going to be visiting for a while,

DM

[Porcupine]

I checked a while ago and as far as I could tell the proof act only makes it illegal to sell an unproofed gun, nothing about importation, manufacture, use or possession etc.

[ovenpaa]

The Proof Acts

The provisions of the Acts apply to all small arms, whether of present use or future invention, within certain fixed limits of bore size and projectile weight (with the exception of some military arms made for the use of H.M. Forces). Air guns, are exempt from proof by Proof Act.

The Proof Acts lay down that no small arm may be sold, exchanged or exported, exposed or kept for sale or exchange or pawned unless and until it has been fully proved and duly marked. The Maximum penalty is £5000 for each offence, but with provision for higher penalties where, for instance, the sale of a number of guns constitutes one offence. Alteration to or the forging of proof marks is a more serious offence.

Arms previously proved and bearing apparently valid proof marks are deemed unproved if the barrels have been enlarged in the bore beyond certain defined limits or if the barrel or action has been materially weakend in other respects.

The offence in dealing in unproved arms is committed by the seller, not by an unwitting purchaser.