The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I've just read S35 of the VCR Act 2006 and it's perfectly clear that a S7 Permit IS sufficient authority to purchase primers!!!!

You can also buy primers for another person, provided you have his Certificate and written authority to purchase on his behalf.

Perfectly clear? Please explain.

Please allow me to try again ...

Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 Section 7(1):
A person who has obtained from the chief officer of police for the area in which he resides a permit for the purpose in the prescribed form may, without holding a certificate under this Act, have in his possession a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms of the permit.

VCRA 2006 Section 35 (5) (f):
[It is an offence for a person to buy primers unless] he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment ... to have possession, without a certificate, of a firearm of a relevant kind or of ammunition of a relevant kind;

The NRA's view is that this allows the holder of a S7 permit to purchase primers because the definition of a certificate in the Firearms Acts means specifically a Firearm Certificate or Shotgun Certificate.

I suspect this argument will rumble on (not least because it's Sunday and it's raining) but it will be academic when TVP finally get round to renewing my FAC so I'd like to know who is stocking match primers :)

Sim G wrote:Fair enough. But I have spent the last 25 years utilising daily, a working knowledge of legislation and law. And despite what hobbsey, saddler and pe4king would have you believe, I'm not a complete knuckle dragger and did actually attain some proper qualifications from a real university!

Don't ever think I've ever called you a 'knuckle dragger'? To be fair the list is long, varied and eloquent but didn't contain those words. I would however use your knowledge and experience when trying to sort out out an issue in the firearms world even if I don't like the answer

Racalman wrote: The NRA's view is that this allows the holder of a S7 permit to purchase primers because the definition of a certificate in the Firearms Acts means specifically a Firearm Certificate or Shotgun Certificate.

And that is the crux of it. A s7 permit is not a certificate and nor does a permit grant exemptions.

Unless specifically exempt from requiring a certificate, it is an offence to sell primers to someone without a valid certificate and likewise, it is an offence to buy, or attempt to buy primers without a valid certificate if not specifically exempted from requiring such.

How the NRA came to the conclusion they did, I cannot see. The two pieces of legislation you've quoted state only that you can be granted a permit without having a certificate, and the second piece states it is an offence to purchase primers without a certificate....!

Sim G wrote:The two pieces of legislation you've quoted state only that you can be granted a permit without having a certificate, and the second piece states it is an offence to purchase primers without a certificate....!

Sim you're not reading the VCRA right.

[It is an offence for a person to buy primers unless] he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment ... to have possession, without a certificate, of a firearm of a relevant kind or of ammunition of a relevant kind;

It says that I can buy primers because I am entitled by virtue of the 1968 Act to possess firearms and ammunition without a certificate!

No you are entitled to POSSESS but not to ACQUIRE. When issued with a permit in place of an FAC due to police delays that PERMIT allows you to POSSESS your firearms and ammo it does not allow you to buy more. That stands for all Sec 1 as well as Sec 7 firearms.

Racalman wrote:

Sim G wrote:The two pieces of legislation you've quoted state only that you can be granted a permit without having a certificate, and the second piece states it is an offence to purchase primers without a certificate....!

Sim you're not reading the VCRA right.

[It is an offence for a person to buy primers unless] he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment ... to have possession, without a certificate, of a firearm of a relevant kind or of ammunition of a relevant kind;

It says that I can buy primers because I am entitled by virtue of the 1968 Act to possess firearms and ammunition without a certificate!

No it doesn't! You are making up that the exemptions apply to you. They do not. Just the Firearms act exemptions do not. These are in place to permit those exempt under the firearms act to purchase and posses. Not someone who has not renewed his certificate(s) in time.

Sent from my mobile using "An application"

MiLisCer wrote:These are in place to permit those exempt under the firearms act to purchase and posses. Not someone who has not renewed his certificate(s) in time.

Ahem ...

My FAC expired in November. I sent my renewal forms to TVP the previous June aaarggh

@Racalman I do hope that TVP issued you a permit for your Firearms! If not you'd better get them to an RFD, PDQ!
I had various delays with Police Scotland but each time was issued with a Permit to Possess and TVP should have issued you with one.
There is NO get out from this it is a legal requirement.