Phoenix Trade Show . RIP ?

[Chapuis]

Dromia I accept much of what you say is correct but would have to disagree slightly with your comment "the halcyon days of Pistol AD and the Trafalgar meetings trade fairs are long gone never to return."

The shooting show at the NEC would suggest otherwise. If you have the right goods for sale and sufficient choice then there seems to be quite a lot of the shooting public only too eager to part with their hard earned cash.

[dromia]

There is a degree of apples and oranges comparisons tween the two.

The NEC and Bisley fairs tend to attract slightly different shooters. The Bisley fairs are attached to competition weekends which to a large extent defines the nature of the buying public and their interests, which are mainly specific. The NEC is a general shooting fair that has a far wider appeal especially to those seeking the new and latest kit.

A trader like myself would never make a return on going to the NEC so in the main it attracts the larger high volume sellers and importers/wholesalers to whom it is an opportunity for them to fulfil their responsibilities to those brands they purport to represent. Not the small specialist dealer like myself. It is geared towards that larger, new products, high volume business model.

I am sure that the shows like the NEC will continue and grow but I still stand by by my statement that "the halcyon days of Pistol AD and the Trafalgar meetings trade fairs are long gone never to return." I agree that they may be replaced in numbers attending by the likes of the NEC but they will not be replaced in the nature of content. Therefore the NEC holds no interest for me as a gun owner and never was a viable option for me as an RFD.

For some one with my gun owning interests the NEC will never meet my needs as the Pistol AD and Trafalgar meeting trade fairs used to.

[Chapuis]

Yes to a degree, apples and oranges but not entirely different as the shooting show attempts to cater for all sectors of the market. But just stand back and consider how the Pistol A.D. / Phoenix trade show has degenerated over the years.
At one time it was where you could go to see all the latest new gear, or stock up on kit for the next year. You could also consult with the importers/distributors. It catered for the ancient as well as the modern. Now look what it has become in recent years, and with all due respect and no personal offence either intended or implied because I fully realise that you cater for a bit of a niche market dromia.

With some notable exceptions not much more than a flea market often selling vastly overpriced tat masquerading as vintage or historic arms and staffed by scruffy sometimes obnoxious retailers some of whom could possibly do with a makeover involving soap and water. Totally unappealing in a lot of ways. There is a place for everybody but the whole thing needs a very drastic overhaul if it is to survive at all.

[Blackstuff]

The economics of trade fairs are not just as simple as the cost of a single table especially when travel is a substantial part of the operation, one of the issues with Bisley being in such a remote part of the country.

At the end of the day businesses will each make their own decision but with increasing costs, the NRA's attitude and the enthusiasm for internet shopping then the halcyon days of Pistol AD and the Trafalgar meetings trade fairs are long gone never to return.

This year will see the first ever shooting show specifically dedicated to Practical shooting (8th&9th Spetember IIRC). I couldn't wait and started to make plans, get an idea of possible slots to add to my FAC, get saving etc etc. Then they announce the venue, The Tunnel, DORSET! FFS!

Practical shooters are used to having to travel for comps and the like but they might as well have gone the whole hog and had it at Penaznce or Jersey! I've also since learned that the brand spanking new venue/range complex at Silverstone had offered to host (and for free i think) but it was rejected!! Much more 'central' location, free for traders and a range that could handle a comeptition making going all the better/economically viable for punters. Sometimes you just have to

Hopefully IF there is a second one, the venue will get a little more thought!

[dromia]

With some notable exceptions not much more than a flea market often selling vastly overpriced tat masquerading as vintage or historic arms and staffed by scruffy sometimes obnoxious retailers some of whom could possibly do with a makeover involving soap and water. Totally unappealing in a lot of ways. There is a place for everybody but the whole thing needs a very drastic overhaul if it is to survive at all.

As I haven't been for five years I cannot comment on its condition now but when I was there I could see some of what you say and if it has gone more so then its demise is ensured.

Gun owning and shooting has changed in my time and the proportion of knowledgable gun owners who demanded certain levels of quality, discernment and understand the meaning of value has decreased just as the demand for the new and fashionable has increased. There has always been some ne'er do wells trading looking for a quick £ and they will surface where they can.

As in all things caveat emptor.

However the days of dealers like myself who are more interested in making a living rather than increasing profits, and dealing with a repeating client base, many of whom I am pleased to now call friends, are numbered.

Supply and demand in a rapidly changing world, not least on the legislative front, so now the old Pistol AD and Trafalgar trade shows seem no longer to have a place in this new world, such is life.

[dromia]

The economics of trade fairs are not just as simple as the cost of a single table especially when travel is a substantial part of the operation, one of the issues with Bisley being in such a remote part of the country.

At the end of the day businesses will each make their own decision but with increasing costs, the NRA's attitude and the enthusiasm for internet shopping then the halcyon days of Pistol AD and the Trafalgar meetings trade fairs are long gone never to return.

This year will see the first ever shooting show specifically dedicated to Practical shooting (8th&9th Spetember IIRC). I couldn't wait and started to make plans, get an idea of possible slots to add to my FAC, get saving etc etc. Then they announce the venue, The Tunnel, DORSET! FFS!

Practical shooters are used to having to travel for comps and the like but they might as well have gone the whole hog and had it at Penaznce or Jersey! I've also since learned that the brand spanking new venue/range complex at Silverstone had offered to host (and for free i think) but it was rejected!! Much more 'central' location, free for traders and a range that could handle a comeptition making going all the better/economically viable for punters. Sometimes you just have to

Hopefully IF there is a second one, the venue will get a little more thought!

Dorset is properly remote, still it is close enough for London and the south shooters to no doubt make it viable, the whole notion of truly national shooting events that make the best concessions they can to enabling shooters from all over our nation to come to has long gone.

[Thorney]

We are planning one for either end of this year or more likely next year - Shooting Show Live.

Free to attend, free to exhibit and running a live range allowing people to actually shoot guns that exhibitors will provide. There are a range of legal, insurance and management issues to deal with but our insurers have confirmed they are happy (which was the first obstacle) and we are an RFD so live use of firearms for FAC holders is fine (subject to the usual paperwork). We will charge per firing line point to cover these costs thats all.

[MistAgain]

I don't know where you come from, but when one is told that a table for the weekend is £600 including vat. How can small traders afford to pay that sort of fees when trying to make money. The show was disappointing.
If Bisley is in business then they are in the wrong business, because they are cutting their own throats by raising fees which traders can't afford.

The tables in the tent were £210+vat, not much for three days with tables, security, electricity and a roof over your head really. In comparison to the BSS and NSS it's a steal......if any punters turn up.

We were one of the three traders on the lawn, I really thought we'd have a great show by mopping up the trade from the missing dealers......but hardly anyone came. Last year we were 2-3 deep from 09:00 till 17:00 on the Saturday. This year we had two or three people passing every 10 minutes (if we were lucky). We won't be at the Trafalgar later this year as that's not really our market, I'm undecided whether we'll do The Phoenix again...

Dealer will only make the effort (and it's a huge effort) to attend if there are people to sell to, it feels like we're in a death spiral to me. < punters = < traders ...and continue.

I am sorry that the footfall was not there, the NRA were predicting 60,000.


.

Sorry to have to find fault with your comment above .

The NRA did not predict 60,000 footfall .

This is what they did post on the booking form, "We will be promoting our Arms Fair to the NRA membership, members of our affiliated clubs
and will use our extensive social media channels that reach up to 60,000 per week"

A footfall of 60,000 would be roughly 3 times the footfall at the recent Northern Shooting Show .

Just think about it , if every car had 3 people in it that would mean parking space for 20,000 cars would be needed .
If 10,000 cars turned up on any one day , the road network around Bisley would have ground to a halt .

[TattooedGun]

The sad reality is that the majority of people are buying more and more of their consumables online. It's cheap, easy and convenient, and whilst there are still a number of people who will trawl the stands at trade fairs, unfortunately between increased prices for stands and lower numbers of people trading, there really are not the bargains that there once were.

For me personally, when I was at the Phoenix, I was there to shoot. It's so difficult to get range time in the Midlands, that I purely wanted to concentrate on shooting. The little time I spent I the trade tent was helping out those who I was on the range with, as they had massive stall space in the marquee, but this was before the start and at the end of the shooting.

I had a quick walk around the stalls and whilst there was some stuff that looked interesting, unfortunately I had neither the slots, or money to get involved.

[Daryll]

The sad reality is that the majority of people are buying more and more of their consumables online. It's cheap, easy and convenient, and whilst there are still a number of people who will trawl the stands at trade fairs, unfortunately between increased prices for stands and lower numbers of people trading, there really are not the bargains that there once were.
......

Thats the case for me... I wasn't going to compete at Phoenix this year, so the only reason for a 4 hr round trip would be shopping.
If my variation had come in time I probably would have gone to see if i could fill the new slot, but as the variation wasn't done (my fault, i'd used an outdated form so it was returned), it wasn't worth the fuel just to buy some bullets, that I can get from Kranks for about the same price.